2016 and beyond...what should Cat do??

ezra · Apr 27, 2014

Dam Dave said:
The current sno cross race team budget is HUGE, they dont need more money for Tucker

for tucker and the big rig riders only
I have been buds whos kids have been racing for yrs .
they all switched to poo for the support cat quit giving
not many yrs ago there was way way more support for all level of riders even just simple small parts will not be even borrowed out for a race. now only in the big rig is there any real support .

0neoldfart · Apr 27, 2014

The chassis is improving

Cat may create a new chassis, but I doubt it until 2017. The current platform works well (not perfect, but what sled is?) Refinements may include weight loss & perhaps different skis. Speaking of weight, there is a point where chassis reinforcement is required (I had an 08 XP and now have a ProRMK - light doesn't mean tough) But from a manufacturing standpoint, it simply isn't feasible to build different chassis for different engines, and certainly not for a mountain specific market (this is a reality). It is true that the 2012's had a bunch of teething problems, and Cat was very slow in resolving them (some were not resolved at all, either), but the 2013's and up have had significant improvements every year. For every person griping about the PC, there is likely 4 other owners without any major issues. The same can be said amongst the other manufacturers, Polaris and Ski-Doo included. If you read all of the forums and took it all to heart, and ignored all of the marketing ploys and "expert testimonials", none of us would buy a new snowmobile, although the fact is the new machines will take us places we only dreamed about ten years ago - if you don't buy into that go buy a 2004 REV, Edge, RX1 or 1M and ride it for a season.
Now, I'm not saying that the manufacturers couldn't build a better sled, but at what cost? Parts manufacturing is farmed out, assembly is provided by relatively low cost labour, it's simply amazing these things work as well as they do. But if you have to have the "perfect sled", go get one custom built - it will be light, handle great, have lots of power and fit and finish second to none - but it will not meet current EPA guidelines and will cost you a fortune to purchase and maintain.
It's always nice to have a "wish list", but be careful what you wish for

geo · Apr 27, 2014

There has been nothing wrong with the PC chassis since the beginning. It just had a pile of poorly engineered parts of questionable quality attached when first introduced. Since then there has been a series of small improvements or cover-ups. No re-engineering probably because they don't have anyone capable any more.
I think Yamaha saw the diamond in the rough and must of had a chuckle or two at the rest.
The same team that added a snow funnel and fan for the clutches because they couldn't bring down belt temps, the same team that mis-designed the steering linkage, the same team that couldn't see that snow in the air box or on the clutches is a bad thing are still adding a handful of screws or juggling gearing to cover up their mistakes.
Have they added the beer can over the disc yet? 10 min. in deep snow shows this hole.

I'm all for a new team taking on the PC chassis from a whole new perspective. The basics are all there as many customers have successfully shown and done. New name, new team. Maybe find the old M7 team. It started close enough that the small changes every year were improvements not fixes. That led to the '11 M8.
If the '15 PC is finally dialed and sealed and Cat takes the same approach as their M-series then that would make the 2020 PC the one to wait for.

Hope you guys can wait that long.

Lot's of people have made the PC very mountain worthy with tons of work. It just doesn't come off the floor that way

arctic2009 · Apr 28, 2014

rmscustom said:
You guys forget its a flatland sled first market (70% of sleds sold).

When my friend that owns a AC dealership asked why I switched to Polaris I told him I'd buy a Cat again when they made a mountain sled,,, he passed that comment along to his rep who replied by saying "We're not competing in the mountain segment anymore... That was after the disaster of the 12 PC release and I think Cat is now finding out a lot of the bleed green folks weren't so faithful and now they're feeling the pain.

Sorry sounds like bs.. A rep would never say they arent competing in a segment, that would be idiotic for any rep in any business to say. IF you arent going to compete, then there is no reason to build in that segment. Country cat actually claims they sell more mountain sleds than they do flatland sleds. This is coming from a flatland dealer.

TNTCOPP · Apr 28, 2014

arctic2009 said:
Sorry sounds like bs.. A rep would never say they arent competing in a segment, that would be idiotic for any rep in any business to say. IF you arent going to compete, then there is no reason to build in that segment. Country cat actually claims they sell more mountain sleds than they do flatland sleds. This is coming from a flatland dealer.

Based on how Cat treats their dealers on the West coast - I don't think that statement is too far from reality! I wonder if they attribute their Snow-Checks this year being down at all based on their attitude/mentality !! The economy is rebounding and their snow-checks are down?? Makes you wonder if they can put 2 and 2 together!

I think this still falls under the topic heading of what can Cat do better........

arctic2009 · Apr 28, 2014

TNTCOPP said:
Based on how Cat treats their dealers on the West coast - I don't think that statement is too far from reality! I wonder if they attribute their Snow-Checks this year being down at all based on their attitude/mentality !! The economy is rebounding and their snow-checks are down?? Makes you wonder if they can put 2 and 2 together!

I think this still falls under the topic heading of what can Cat do better........

Or maybe the 14s were so good no one needed to upgrade to a 15 :face-icon-small-win

Griff · Apr 28, 2014

Good list above for Cat to ponder. I'll add one to it that I don't think has been mentioned. Give us the option for coil overs with zero pros. I loved my M7 and my M8. Will be on a Pro for 15 and watching what Cat decides to do.

B-Ridge Sledder · Apr 29, 2014

Looked at upgrading and still might to a left over 14' there was zero incentive this year. The hardest part is getting hosed on my 12' which I've got to work finally and then spending more money to make a new one just as good. Might keep the 12' until something new comes along and see how long this thing can take the abuse. Belt drive, oil delete, short coolers and bdx front end this year and I have a perfect set up. That will cost me about 2k and Im thinking 5k to upgrade and make it what I have. SMH.

powder pounder · Apr 29, 2014

Don't agree again

geo said:
There has been nothing wrong with the PC chassis since the beginning. It just had a pile of poorly engineered parts of questionable quality attached when first introduced. Since then there has been a series of small improvements or cover-ups. No re-engineering probably because they don't have anyone capable any more.
I think Yamaha saw the diamond in the rough and must of had a chuckle or two at the rest.
The same team that added a snow funnel and fan for the clutches because they couldn't bring down belt temps, the same team that mis-designed the steering linkage, the same team that couldn't see that snow in the air box or on the clutches is a bad thing are still adding a handful of screws or juggling gearing to cover up their mistakes.
Have they added the beer can over the disc yet? 10 min. in deep snow shows this hole.

I'm all for a new team taking on the PC chassis from a whole new perspective. The basics are all there as many customers have successfully shown and done. New name, new team. Maybe find the old M7 team. It started close enough that the small changes every year were improvements not fixes. That led to the '11 M8.
If the '15 PC is finally dialed and sealed and Cat takes the same approach as their M-series then that would make the 2020 PC the one to wait for.

Hope you guys can wait that long.

Lot's of people have made the PC very mountain worthy with tons of work. It just doesn't come off the floor that way

Geo have you rode a 15 or a 14?? I have only rode a 15 m9000 but the 14 m8000 is a very good mountain sled. It handles well and side hills great and the power is awesome and even better with a jaws pipe. We have quite a few good riders that switched from a pro to a 14 proclimb and are very happy campers. They used to snow check a new Polaris every year and all have decided to keep there cat one more year. They are happy with it and are not worried that the motor will go down.
You seem like a smart guy ego but I and several others from my area tried your clutching and suspension set ups on the m series. Non keeper them with your set up very long. Just did not work for us.

Ranzou · May 2, 2014

West Coast Support lacking

I live in Sacramento, CA. The nearest Arctic Cat dealer that supports snowmobiles is nearly 2 hours away. There are numerous Polaris and Ski Doo dealers within 30 minutes of my house. While I purchased an MY2014 M8000, mostly because I liked how it felt, it was not the smartest choice. Getting service or AC gear and accessories is troublesome. Usually I order online from Country Cat, whom I love, but that doesn't help out my local (nonexistant) dealers.

Most people around here ride Polaris or Ski Doo. Probably a big reason is for the local support they have available.

Last thought, I really feel screwed by Arctic Cat in my 2014 model that the warranty is 1 year only. Shame on you! Doesn't give alot of customer confidence. Now the 2015's come with a 3 year. WTF?

knifedge · May 3, 2014

--Cat should offer factory 940 big bore kit as an option for the great Suzuki engine they choose to continue to use. Imagine if they offered it as a snowcheck?? You bet they would sell some.

--Hopefully the new engine in development will have plenty of aftermarket potential as well.

TNTCOPP · May 3, 2014

Ranzou said:
I live in Sacramento, CA. The nearest Arctic Cat dealer that supports snowmobiles is nearly 2 hours away. There are numerous Polaris and Ski Doo dealers within 30 minutes of my house. While I purchased an MY2014 M8000, mostly because I liked how it felt, it was not the smartest choice. Getting service or AC gear and accessories is troublesome. Usually I order online from Country Cat, whom I love, but that doesn't help out my local (nonexistant) dealers.

Most people around here ride Polaris or Ski Doo. Probably a big reason is for the local support they have available.

Last thought, I really feel screwed by Arctic Cat in my 2014 model that the warranty is 1 year only. Shame on you! Doesn't give alot of customer confidence. Now the 2015's come with a 3 year. WTF?

What? Country Cat sells out of territory? I wonder if Cat knows so they can fine'em and fire'em! Yes..........scarcasm.

Latitude 62 · May 22, 2014

I have been riding the M 8s since my 2011 162. Had a new 12, 13, and 14. Each one was better than it's predecessor in some way or another. There are things that keep moving along that are a problem for me. My peeves are these:

Skis, I use Powder Pros instead!
Flatlander Rail geometry. Why not use a gradual bend like Ice Age or Polaris?
Poor fuel range. Tank could easily be made 12.5 or 13 gallons
Go back to the 2011 driven clutch, this encapsulated design is crap IMO!
Narrow the panels up a bit with out the overlapping seals!
Separate the chain case from our engine oil tank!
Make a 9 pound exhaust can stock!
What most everybody else said too.

Alot of the symptons the Pro Climb is ailing from is because the chasis was designed around the 4 stroke turbo motor, the 2 stroke 800 was an after thought. Cat should and could do better. I will be taking a serious look at a Poo come 2016. My Cat Dealer is great, only reason I've been here this long!

arctic2009 · May 22, 2014

Latitude 62 said:
I have been riding the M 8s since my 2011 162. Had a new 12, 13, and 14. Each one was better than it's predecessor in some way or another. There are things that keep moving along that are a problem for me. My peeves are these:

Go back to the 2011 driven clutch, this encapsulated design is crap IMO!
QUOTE]

Both clutches are encapsulated and both are a bad design if you ask me.. the 2011 secondary is nothing to write home about either.

Reg2view · May 22, 2014

ACAT is now controlled by financial engineers, shooting for record earnings and stock market valuation, and the former product engineers who were the real stars are now cost managers. The product guys need to be unleashed abit more often. Hope you ACAT product engineers who follow these threads get your freedom.

M8onEdge · May 22, 2014

Go back to the 2011 driven clutch, this encapsulated design is crap IMO!
QUOTE]

Both clutches are encapsulated and both are a bad design if you ask me.. the 2011 secondary is nothing to write home about either.[/QUOTE]

Amen to that. Cat needs to start over with clutching altogether and produce something that has better geometry and minimum heat. My '10 M8 that my kids ride just blew the spider on the primary apart at about 1800 miles. Look at the poll on the M8 forum showing 42% spider failure rate! Same sled has a broken helix on the secondary. Good engine, good chassis (great with weight redux) and pathetic drive system.

Scott · May 22, 2014

M8onEdge said:
Go back to the 2011 driven clutch, this encapsulated design is crap IMO!

Both clutches are encapsulated and both are a bad design if you ask me.. the 2011 secondary is nothing to write home about either.

Click to expand...

Amen to that. Cat needs to start over with clutching altogether and produce something that has better geometry and minimum heat. My '10 M8 that my kids ride just blew the spider on the primary apart at about 1800 miles. Look at the poll on the M8 forum showing 42% spider failure rate! Same sled has a broken helix on the secondary. Good engine, good chassis (great with weight redux) and pathetic drive system.

How do you adjust belt deflection on the 2014 clutches. Buddy just got one and can't figure it out. Belt is squealing.

High Country · May 22, 2014

Scott said:
How do you adjust belt deflection on the 2014 clutches. Buddy just got one and can't figure it out. Belt is squealing.

The shims behind the bolt and aluminum spacer that holds secondary on !!
R.I.D=remove increase deflection
A.D.D= add decrease deflection
He would want to remove a shim 0.030 to increase belt deflection ...start there !!

Scott · May 22, 2014

High Country said:
The shims behind the bolt and aluminum spacer that holds secondary on !!
R.I.D=remove increase deflection
A.D.D= add decrease deflection
He would want to remove a shim 0.030 to increase belt deflection ...start there !!

So add shims to increase squeal.
Decrease shims to decrease squeal.

LOL

Jaynelson · May 22, 2014

Scott said:
So add shims to increase squeal.
Decrease shims to decrease squeal.

LOL

And if you get it just right...your belt might last the weekend!

2016 and beyond...what should Cat do??

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