Do I have the right spring.....

jakim · Feb 11, 2013

Well the last few days I have been reading several post about springs and I am happy with what I got know but would like to understand it better.
Curently have a 09 m1000 with Speedwerks exhaust and a PCV.The primary has a polaris red/white spring witch is 85-220. I also run MDS weights with 90.5 loaded even. Stock secondary with 36 helix. Engages at 2800 and max rpm is 7600 and settles out to about 7510 on long pull. But a few of these posts I have read said to use 100-320( ish) spring. I also ride mostly at 3-6000 ft. I have mid 50mph on long pulls in deep powder and I can let of and get my RPM back. It just seems that there is a lot of difference on the finish rate of the se springs. Belt life is about 300 miles which I am fine with at they are all powder miles and climbing ( We don't have trails ). So if I understand this correctly if I ran a spring like this I would need to drop a ton of weight in order to reach full rpm is this correct. And If so what would be the advantage of running less weight other than response time.
Just trying to learn more thanks.

Hardass · Feb 11, 2013

a finish of 220 is super soft as is the 85 at 2800 engagement i still can't imagine ,my sled idles at 2100 any way the way i understand it is the more start rate the higher the engagement as the weights have to overcome that rate as you get to the other end the 320 would be resisting the the weights more so engine rpm would rise. realy you would have to add more weight to keep the same rpm on top.I'm going to be at just under 85 grams mds to engage at 36ish with a top at 77/7800same helix at 45/6500 ported heads pipe all of it. your weight must be loaded different.

jakim · Feb 11, 2013

I started with a polaris gold that Steve sent me and it was 110-275 (I think) and I could not get the RPM below 7800 with that spring. I was up around 94 on the weights. He is the one that suggested the red/white spring. The weights are loaded even among the two holes. The engagment is super low but it doesnt cause me any problems that I know of.Idol is 1700. After tweaking my map just a bit there is no low end or mid range bog at all and it pulls very strong. I am just trying to understand this more as I have limited experiance in it.

Hardass · Feb 11, 2013

Clutching is one of those things that you can get similar results different ways. Heavier weight sure do feel like they pull harder but at some point you might just be hard on your clutch. 90 is approaching turbo weight but hey if it works for you and your happy. to bad were not closer so you could feel the difference of my clutching to yours and me as well.allthough the porting of this motor makes a real difference.

diggerdown · Feb 12, 2013

Sounds like you really got that thing running well. I would also think that it would feel sluggish on the bottom. I would be tempted to put the other spring back in and stick a steeper helix in. Make some use of that torque. I'm not real familiar with clutching the 1000 but most of them seem to be a little slow off the starting blocks and then pull like a freight train once they get moving,

jakim · Feb 12, 2013

It would be nice to have another one around to ride. I am happy with it I was thinking about porting and a head but I really like the way it runs now and didn't want to spend time tuning again. This will be the last year on this sled. 1100t for me next year and my boy can have the m1k

MT Backcountry · Feb 12, 2013

speedwerx H5

Im running a m1000 also with the speedwerx single pipe and other mods and love the speedwerx H5 Blue spring I turn 7780 on the trail in and 7650 to 7690 on the hills at elevation. Works well for me. they are little more than stock springs but are lighter and last longer In my Experiences.
:face-icon-small-hap

RCR3 · Feb 12, 2013

Just for reference a blue H5 spring is 165-310! I was recently told I should run a 140-330 or 340 primary in my set up!

Hardass · Feb 12, 2013

Really i have asked and do not know any one riding at 4/6500 feet that has anything remotely close to your set up 85/220/36 helix every one is 100/140 on the low end to 285/340 on the big end with a 36 or 38 straight helix now mind you these people are running cat weights. i just wonder if you had some stuff to try if your really missing out on more than you think.

jakim · Feb 12, 2013

Hardass said:
Really i have asked and do not know any one riding at 4/6500 feet that has anything remotely close to your set up 85/220/36 helix every one is 100/140 on the low end to 285/340 on the big end with a 36 or 38 straight helix now mind you these people are running cat weights. i just wonder if you had some stuff to try if your really missing out on more than you think.

That's my big question. I am the only one around with a m1k. I have never even seen another one running around. But compared to m8 there is usually a hundred feet difference on the hill. Same withe the pc. Lots of them around. I also have not seen a m1100t here yet. Regaurdless shouldn't it be good if I hit target rpm don't blow belts and have no bogs? Or should I get a different spring and give it a try.

0neoldfart · Feb 12, 2013

Operating RPM seems low...

jakim said:
Well the last few days I have been reading several post about springs and I am happy with what I got know but would like to understand it better.
Curently have a 09 m1000 with Speedwerks exhaust and a PCV.The primary has a polaris red/white spring witch is 85-220. I also run MDS weights with 90.5 loaded even. Stock secondary with 36 helix. Engages at 2800 and max rpm is 7600 and settles out to about 7510 on long pull. But a few of these posts I have read said to use 100-320( ish) spring. I also ride mostly at 3-6000 ft. I have mid 50mph on long pulls in deep powder and I can let of and get my RPM back. It just seems that there is a lot of difference on the finish rate of the se springs. Belt life is about 300 miles which I am fine with at they are all powder miles and climbing ( We don't have trails ). So if I understand this correctly if I ran a spring like this I would need to drop a ton of weight in order to reach full rpm is this correct. And If so what would be the advantage of running less weight other than response time.
Just trying to learn more thanks.

Hey, I used to run an M1000 with SLP's setup and a bunch of other goodies. Two things stand out in your paragraph : 7600 RPM, & 36 degree helix. Check with speedwerx, I'm pretty sure that setup should run around 7800 RPM. I would also look at a progressive helix - something like a 44-38 or 44-40 for your elevation. Spring choice: I like the Polaris gold 100/270, or Polaris black 110/290. 90.5 grams is simply shortening clutch life, lighten the tips.
Hope this helps.

jakim · Feb 12, 2013

If I remember the slp setup likes 77-7800 but I think racinstation told me to aim for 75-7600 for speedwerks. Like I said I wish I knew more about this area but don't and I don't have anything to compare to it. Everyone I ride with is us an 800. Some piped and 1 has a turbo running 10lbs. So with a higher finish rate spring do I run more or less weight in the arms. I thought it was more weight so I went up to 94 but I can't put more on without binding. And than I was running at 7700. There is a definite difference when I jump on a friends 800 pc. I keep waiting to hit the power band but its not there like mine. They go well but defiantly not an arm wrenching ride.
Thanks for your help guys.

Hardass · Feb 12, 2013

Actually speedwerx is 77/7800 and slp is 7600

jakim · Feb 12, 2013

Well maybe that's it. I have always targeted 7600.

RobertTrivanovic · Feb 12, 2013

You Gould be engaging much higher... Are you not bogging with such a low engagement? I engage at 4000 on my m8 and seems like that's Around what everyone else engages at yours is honestly stupid low. I have never heard of anyone with that low of an engagement on any sled. Also I don't know exactly on the m1 but on m8s you target 8200 maybe a tiny but less. I'm pulling 8150 with porting, pipes ect. And 90g weights are huge. I'm running 73g and I ride at 3-8000ft your clutching is so far off in every aspect ou need to change primary secondary and weights. Clutching is one of those things people underestimate. People go and mod there sleds insanity and get some more power. Then there's others that just get the clutching right and Actualy use the power the sled has. I do both

but clutching is the first thing you should do to any (mainly used) sled you buy. Try buying adjustable weights and a primary spring and go from there. Yor local shop should be able to recommend a good primary spring

jakim · Feb 12, 2013

Well I appreciate your input but I think that we are comparing two completely different items. In stock form m1k only run 72-7300 rpm vs an m8 at 8100. I know the engagement is super low but what does it hurt as long as there is no bog and it pulls well at all rpm ranges. I bought this sled new and rode it stock the first year. I don't know if I am getting all the power that I can to the track but it is night and between it now and stock. The differance between it and a stock 800 HO is pretty significant as well.
But I have been thinking about the helix thing is it possible I am not getting full shift out. My track speed on a deep powder climb is middle 50's. usually 54 55 mph. With deep powder. Does that sound about right.

0neoldfart · Feb 13, 2013

It's a matter of preference.

Funny thing about clutching is you can have two entirely different setups and achieve the same result. Personally, I like a lower engagement (nicer for picking your way through the trees at slow speeds), and the M1 has something the M8 doesn't: TORQUE. The concept of the the multi angle helix is it will upshift faster, thereby loading the engine, making use of it's power. The shallower finish allows you to maintain some trackspeed (RPM) on the hill. The primary spring you are using would have tremendous belt grip combined with the weights, but I suspect your backshift is suffering slightly, and any excessive force beyond what the belt needs becomes heat - which is detrimental to a CVT system.
To be honest, I never much liked the compression style seconday as it had more heat (excessive clamping) then a torsional. I always ran torsional kits with great performance and belt life. I would suggest (If it were my sled) to give Kelsey a call at RK Tek, pretty sure he can set you up with something you will be very pleased with that will work for your riding elevation, weight, and modifications.
Rule of thumb: Stiffer primary spring will require heavier weights to achieve target RPM. A little overrev is desireable on inital acceleration, as it will settle into the target RPM on a climb.
One more thing: Better to clutch for feel then using the factory tach. Most tachometers are not accurate, with a margin of 100-200 RPM either way.

Hope this helps you.

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Do I have the right spring.....

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