Indy 600 triples

rmkrazi · Dec 8, 2009

I'm thinking about buying an xlt or an older 600 or 650 for a back up/beater (friend) sled . Was wondering which year(s) 580's and/or 600's would be good to avoid. I thought most of 'em were pretty tough, but remember reading or hearing somewhere that some years had crank issues. Can any buddy elaborate on this? What kinda mileage have some of you seen these machines get without a rebuild. Just getting some ideas, thanks..

550iq · Dec 8, 2009

I do not know about the 650's but as for the XLT's, try for a 97 model. Also, look for engines with 34mm round slide carbs. AVIOD XLT's with 38mm carbs at all costs. The 38mm XLT engine was a bust (personal experiance). Expect very good results with the 34mm engine: good starting, very good mileage, and quite quick to boot. After '97 the engine went into the Evolved chassis

, then into the Aggressive chassis, which added flat-slide Mikuni's - and a tuning nightmare. So target a 97 if possible with 34mm carbs, in my opinion the last good XLT model year (in either short track, SKS, or RMK versions). Good luck.

snwman77 · Dec 8, 2009

If you buy an older 650 or 600 your should realy know your way around a sled. They were fast but if things werent just right in the jeting, cluching they can go from being fast to not even able to drive off a trailer.
now for the XLT they like to brake piston skirts off and push them through the crank case, but a little more user friendly. I would look for a 97,98,99,2000,2001 big block 600 or 700 twin sled!

rmking600 · Dec 8, 2009

96-97 xlt rmk is your best option

manowar · Dec 8, 2009

I disagree the 95 and later 600 had crank issues and head gaskets not 0 rings. coolant issues as well. the 93 -94 was the 580 this engine had a good crank and 0 ring heads i had 10,470 mi on my 94 when the crank seal let go i now have 13,200 on it with a complete rebuild 2730 mi on the new motor i would ride it any where. the specal had the 38 carbs so you know. they run gret just prone to break neadles off. and with a set of triple pipes it will put a woopin on a stock 97-01 700 any day of the week not bad from a 580 cc sled.

skis_n_skid · Dec 8, 2009

550iq said:
Also, look for engines with 34mm round slide carbs. AVIOD XLT's with 38mm carbs at all costs. The 38mm XLT engine was a bust (personal experiance).

What kind of issues did you experience with it that lead you to consider it a bust? Just wondering what I have to look forward to.

I figured that if I leave the motor stock I shouldn't have too many problems for a while.

I have a 97 XLT SKS and a 96 XLT SP, both with only about 1200. The SP (with 38mm carbs) has more power than the SKS with 34mm carbs (I have modified them both with 144 RMK skids and my wife rides the SKS. Other than it takes 1 or 2 more pulls to start cold than the SKS, it hasn't been problematic in any way so far. I'm considering putting a 680 ultra motor in it at some point, but I was hoping the 600 would be a reliable motor for a while.

When you had issues, how much mileage was on it? Was it stock exhaust or triple pipes?

wrtmani · Dec 8, 2009

I used to have a link to a fellow who was really up on the XLT/XCRs and is widely regarded concerning these sleds, but it was a Geocities link and Geocities is no longer on the web. Perhaps someone else remembers who I'm talking about...?

Basicly the early 93-94 xlts were good machines. It was 95 to early 97 600 machines that had crank problems, with the xcr's having secondary issues with bad pistons in 95. The problem was the oil injection hole in the crankcase for the PTO bearing was about a third smaller than the other two cylinders resulting in bearing failures at the PTO end. This propblem was further worsened by the addition of triple pipes on this motor, which puts more stress on the crank with the increase in horsepower.

Late '97 model and-on Xlts had a wider pto bearing and 4-line oil pump with a 4th line feeding just the pto bearing (my "97 XLT RMK is a early 3-line oil pump). There are instructions on the web on how to properly drill out the pto hole and instructions for installing a 4- line pump and modifying the cases to fit a 4th line. I found a lot of information on this subject at www.hardcoresledder.com which has a subsection in their forum just for the xlt's and xcr's.

My XLT has just over 4000 miles (I don't know how many miles w/ pipes, they were on it when I bought it.), stock other than the pipes. So far I have followed the advice Ive been told from others, which is to keep the oil pump turned up above stock to flow more oil to crank bearings, fog the snot outta it for the off-season to keep the bearings lubed, and stay below about 9200 rpm when running the tripple pipes. That high of rpms on that motor for sustained periods with pipes is hard on them. I haven't ridden it much in the last three years I've had it (three foot surgeries in two years

) but I love my XLT, its got enuff snort to move my fat butt around and I love that triple sound!!!

Good luck!!!

rmking600 · Dec 9, 2009

wow mabey i was wrong on these sleds if figured the 96-97 with the rmk not the sks would be the best. but mabey not. i have 2,000 on my xlt and all stock and it is running strong. 133 for now but i want a 144 in the summer.

fordpickupman · Dec 9, 2009

Interesting...

manowar said:
I disagree the 95 and later 600 had crank issues and head gaskets not 0 rings. coolant issues as well. the 93 -94 was the 580 this engine had a good crank and 0 ring heads i had 10,470 mi on my 94 when the crank seal let go i now have 13,200 on it with a complete rebuild 2730 mi on the new motor i would ride it any where. the specal had the 38 carbs so you know. they run gret just prone to break neadles off. and with a set of triple pipes it will put a woopin on a stock 97-01 700 any day of the week not bad from a 580 cc sled.

I have been paranoid of my '93 SKS as it has 5500 miles on it... it has never been touched, all stock. (I prolly ought to rebalance the clutch)...I was under the impression that with this engine I would not want to pipe it or the crank would scatter. I would love to run some pipes on it to gain some pull for my 151track and 215 lbs of lard. How cantankerous are they with pipes? lots of tinkering for weather and altitude? I have a set of 38mm carbs for it, but did not want to mess with dialing those in, would they be worth it?

Maybe we should start a build thread for the XLT 580 engine so that all the already known wisdom can be spread around to those of us that are newer to the game.....

skis_n_skid · Dec 9, 2009

fordpickupman said:
I have a set of 38mm carbs for it, but did not want to mess with dialing those in, would they be worth it?

From everything I've read and been told on that, the 38mm carbs will not work properly on a 600 mono-block that isn't designed for them. My understanding is that the SP 600 that came with 38mm carbs has the ports cut lower in the cylinders so they draw a little bit more air/fuel.

theultrarider · Dec 9, 2009

I had a 97 xc600 (used to be scr before 97) tripple. It was long tracked brand new. Had about 100 miles on it when I added the tripple pipes for her. That is one of the ones that comes with the 38 mm carbs. It was a great sled. Had 5000+ miles on it when it was sold with any engine problems. The target rpm on them with tripples is 9200. It is that high for a reason. The xlt motor has a bad harmonic spot in it from about 86-8800 rpm. If you run it at the range, the cranks will break. It is that simple. That is why stock, keep it below 8500 and they are happy. Piped, clutch to run 92-9500, they live just fine as well. We ran ours at 95-96 for most all of it's life. As far as I know, the folks we sold it to are still riding that thing. A buddy of mine back in Mn has two xlt 580's a 93 and a 95. both piped with zero miles on them. Both sleds well over 10,000 trail miles on them and still run strong. ! set of pistons in them each. The tripples are a little pickier on the jetting than they were with a single on them, but still not too bad. No where near as touchy as my boys prox 440 was.

skis_n_skid · Dec 17, 2009

550iq said:
AVIOD XLT's with 38mm carbs at all costs. The 38mm XLT engine was a bust (personal experiance).

So is there anything to this? Anyone else know or heard of any inherent problems with the XLT SP motor with 38mm carbs? It seems odd that someone would make a statement like this and then not respond as to the specific experience(s) that them feel that it was a bust.

PooSlinger · Dec 17, 2009

Get a '94 XLT, 97 XC600 or newer XLT in newer body. The '95 and '96 had some durability issues. If you want to run pipes, the 93-4 or 97 on up are the way to go.

fordpickupman · Dec 17, 2009

ya

I like what I am hearing......

Now to find some old pipes.......

88Merkur · Dec 22, 2009

triple pipes - not the problem

I just picked up a set of SLP triple pipes for my 96 XLT RMK. This is the second XLT that I will be running triples on. I didn't have any issues with the first XLT, it ran great. I spent a lot of time on the phone with the helpful people at SLP. If you're thinking of pipes but you're not sure, give them a call. One thing I learned from SLP is the pipes are not the reason for crank failures, it's added traction from longer, taller tracks. However, SLP does have a toughboy mod for the PTO bearing if you want to spend the money.

Dan

skis_n_skid · Dec 22, 2009

88Merkur said:
I just picked up a set of SLP triple pipes for my 96 XLT RMK. This is the second XLT that I will be running triples on. I didn't have any issues with the first XLT, it ran great. I spent a lot of time on the phone with the helpful people at SLP. If you're thinking of pipes but you're not sure, give them a call. One thing I learned from SLP is the pipes are not the reason for crank failures, it's added traction from longer, taller tracks. However, SLP does have a toughboy mod for the PTO bearing if you want to spend the money.

Dan

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Extra power + more load = a lot more stress on the crank. After long tracking mine I'm just going to leave the motor stock. When I feel that I need more power I'll just swap in a 680 ultra motor, and sell the xlt motor to offset the cost somewhat. Considering the cost of pipes and pto bearing upgrade, I figure I'll get more for my money (after selling the xlt motor) with a stock 680 ultra motor vs a piped xlt motor.

olymon · Dec 22, 2009

been running a 93 580 xlt motor for a few years with no problems. Turning 9300 with triple pipes and running 38mm carbs. It's all in how much time you want to play with it I guess. The 34 mm carbs will be snappy for sure.

dman142 · Dec 22, 2009

I would look for the 580 or the newer version of the XLT motor that has the 4 line oil pump. The oil line going to the PTO bearing is critical. The cases on the PTO end did not have a large enough opening to oil the PTO crank bearings. That's what the Geocities site says. I've put a 4 line on a regular XLT with good results. Mid 97 they introduced the new pump on the XLTs.

My 97 did not have the oiler to the PTO side and crank was toast at 4000 miles.

D

88Merkur · Dec 23, 2009

Oil pumps

It's interesting to see the changes these motors go through. I have an 86 Indy 600 and it has a 4 line pump. The funny thing is, the sled had a factory update that blocked the 4th line to the PTO bearing. I talked to a local long time Polaris dealer and he told me the factory released the update because at trail cruising speeds, too many people were fouling plugs because of the extra oil being delivered to the PTO bearing. I looked up the Indy 650 and it has a 3 line pump, the XLT up through 97 has a 3 line pump and the 98 and later was changed to a 4 line pump. You would think after so many years of running triple motors, Polaris and Fuji could have figured out the crank oiling issues? I wonder if I could install the Indy 600 pump on my 96 XLT? Does anybody know how many outlets are on the Storm 750/800 oil pump?

Dan

wrtmani · Jan 3, 2010

wrtmani said:
I used to have a link to a fellow who was really up on the XLT/XCRs and is widely regarded concerning these sleds, but it was a Geocities link and Geocities is no longer on the web. Perhaps someone else remembers who I'm talking about...?

Found a new link to it myself. Here is the info as copied from the original geocities site:

http://www.wheatfarm.com/snowmobile/info/polaris-sled-faq.pdf

Indy 600 triples

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