Hope so! We got spoiled last year...gonna have to get together for a ride this year.
Why I started riding Yamaha again
- Thread starter Turblue
- Start date
Hope so! We got spoiled last year...gonna have to get together for a ride this year.
I got to ask, have you actually tried a Sidewinder? I’m guessing you haven’t ...you should they sure don’t feel like there’s 100 lbs difference. They handle extremely well with the extra weight.
I have to laugh though all your posts on this thread for someone who doesn’t like 4 strokes. :face-icon-small-win
Doesn't feel like it.... I bet you feel all of it when it is stuck. I end up stuck a fair amount most days and really do not need nor enjoy the extra work out.
It isn't that I do not like 4 strokes. Build one that is competitive in weight and I think they have some real advantages. I do not need to buy $50 gallons of 2 stroke oil. I don't need the smell. I don't need a machine that requires engine rebuilds every 3000 miles but I will suffer through those things to avoid a sled that is 100 lbs overweight.
It isn't that I do not like 4 strokes. Build one that is competitive in weight and I think they have some real advantages. I do not need to buy $50 gallons of 2 stroke oil. I don't need the smell. I don't need a machine that requires engine rebuilds every 3000 miles but I will suffer through those things to avoid a sled that is 100 lbs overweight.
I think you guys may be arguing more about terrain differences, than sled weights. I watched the videos in this thread, and while the OP says "tree riding", I would consider it more like big area riding with a few trees thrown in for excitement. I love those areas, but when I do what I consider "tree riding", a heavy 4-stroke would be the last thing I would want to be riding. Seems Big10inch may be more into this really tight tree riding where you need a light sled to be able to toss it around in order to squeak through. Horsepower and torque certainly helps in those situations, but light weight is king.
Yes stuckage is common for me also...running in the trees. The sled rolls over fairly easy, so it’s not to bad. The times I really struggle is when the snow is sticky, trying to get going is tricky forsure.
The thing I disliked about the 800 pro and skidoo t3 174, on the deep days I wasn’t getting any good speed with my size. It was a real lack lustre riding experience... At least the Sidewinder has the jam to power out of those same spots. I’ll put up with the extra weight due to that reason any day.
The thing I disliked about the 800 pro and skidoo t3 174, on the deep days I wasn’t getting any good speed with my size. It was a real lack lustre riding experience... At least the Sidewinder has the jam to power out of those same spots. I’ll put up with the extra weight due to that reason any day.
Yes riding the Sidewinder in the open areas is a blast, unfortunately our terrain isn’t like that and your riding through the trees to get to decent spots. Here a small video of the terrain we like to find. I am the only one in the group with a Sidewinder, others are 850,800 poo and doo, and a alpha.
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8HyT3ZLK2SE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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And another with a little more open country
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2fooHOfH2Rs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2fooHOfH2Rs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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B
You raise a very solid point here. One that I touched on earlier.
I will gladly suffer the weight to avoid these things you mention. I think with this, it comes down to priorities for each individual. No wrong answer really.
All of my motorcycles are 4 strokes. Even my weed eater is a Honda 4 stroke. Much more expensive and heavier than a Stihl, I simply cannot handle the smoke.
Regards
Pretty awesome promo video for yammy! Those riders can manhandle that beast very well. But . . ..the weight penalty is FAR too much for me to even consider one of these. Hopefully someday yammy will build a lighter sled that can compete with the other brands. Then i might at least give them a second look. They sound cool though!!
Cheers to a great season . . . no matter what you ride!!
Cheers to a great season . . . no matter what you ride!!
Yeah they make them shine forsure, but in all honesty they are pretty easy to handle. The weight is very well balanced. I to was skeptical before I rode one....after years of battling the weight of the apex and the not liking the nytro....plus all the cash needed to get them to work properly, I was done with Yamaha...but when the Sidewinder came out turbocharged, I wanted to give them a try....we signed up for the demo ride and man I haven’t smiled like that in a long time ...even one of my buddies, who is around 165lbs, threw it around like nothing....he was quite surprised. He rides a cat so he was very familiar with the chassis. Before you assume their heavy unmanuverable sleds, take one for a rip.
My bet after BiG10inch watches that video he will be converted.
My bet after BiG10inch watches that video he will be converted.
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B
The Winder is way better than than any previous 4 stroke. The 100# penalty doesn't feel like 200#'s anymore, it feels like 50#'s. If you're a real tight tree guy it's probably not for you but if you poke up into bigger, more open terrain where the 2 strokes struggle you'll love that torque.
Weight
Simple answer... Lots of guys want/need more power than N/A, 120hp(at 10k),machines can provide. 3% power loss per 1k elevation change is fact. It makes your 170hp (at sea level) sled 119hp at 10k. Unfortunately, the sled and rider weight remain unchanged as elevation increases. Personally, where I enjoy riding (high elevation) I prefer the fun only a turbo/supercharger can provide. I have owned both 2stroke(turbo) and Sidewinders, I run my SW's at 260hp, my 2stroke at 200hp (reliability).
I have let many friends/people ride my SW's. Not one has come back and complained it was too heavy. All have commented about how powerful and balanced it is.
All that said, not everyone has the budget or physical size to handle a big sled like the SW is. My wife at 125# enjoys her 850 just fine.
The important thing is to get out and enjoy the ride!
Simple answer... Lots of guys want/need more power than N/A, 120hp(at 10k),machines can provide. 3% power loss per 1k elevation change is fact. It makes your 170hp (at sea level) sled 119hp at 10k. Unfortunately, the sled and rider weight remain unchanged as elevation increases. Personally, where I enjoy riding (high elevation) I prefer the fun only a turbo/supercharger can provide. I have owned both 2stroke(turbo) and Sidewinders, I run my SW's at 260hp, my 2stroke at 200hp (reliability).
I have let many friends/people ride my SW's. Not one has come back and complained it was too heavy. All have commented about how powerful and balanced it is.
All that said, not everyone has the budget or physical size to handle a big sled like the SW is. My wife at 125# enjoys her 850 just fine.
The important thing is to get out and enjoy the ride!
Well I watched the Sidewinder in the trees video, and since that didn't inspire anything nice to say, I didn't say anything. We ride trees that tight or tighter but at least three times that speed.
The promo video is cool and all but again, all wide open terrain. That isn't how or where I really like to ride. The tighter the trees the better, the more technical the line the better. You would work your butt off trying to keep up I suspect.
The 20-30 lb penalty going from my previous Axys to my Mtn Cat is way more than I would like. The Polaris just doesn't hold up very well for me so I accepted the weight to get some decent reliability and build quality. There isn't much chance you are going to convince me another 80 lbs or so on my already too heavy machine is going to be what I need or want. I am sure the power is awesome, I am sure the handling is good since it is pretty much the same as my Cat but the weight and cost are just too much for me.
I would like to try one but the dealers have pretty much bailed and I do not know anybody who owns one.
Surprised
I was actually thinking about this topic the other day when I was thinking about kid sleds and the relationships of power and weight and how it would change with body size and strength and conditioning. I was thinking that by weight and power dimensions, the AXYS is about perfect for me. So then if I was 6'4" instead of 5'11" and I was 240 instead of 185 and then pretend I was actually in shape, like reasonably well conditioned. I can't imagine at that point that I wouldn't prefer a sidewinder to my AXYS.
I think the answer becomes fairly obvious at that point. Even though a lot of us (snowmobilers) are heavy - that doesn't mean that we are strong and/or in good shape. I think I'm a fairly prototypical example. Even though I'm 185, if i actually hit the gym a few times a week, I would probably be more like 170. At that point I could probably lift a lot more than I do now as well. I actually have to admit that even though I'm 185, I wouldn't be wildly surprised to find out that I probably couldn't bench a whole lot more than 135.
So in the end, my thoughts are this. If you are over 210 pounds, can bench over 210 pounds, and can run a mile and a half in less than 10 minutes, then I bet you are the kind of guy who would really prefer the power of the SW and wouldn't mind the weight so much. However, I think there are very few of us who fit that "linebacker" kind of body and also can afford to buy a $15k sled.
I was actually thinking about this topic the other day when I was thinking about kid sleds and the relationships of power and weight and how it would change with body size and strength and conditioning. I was thinking that by weight and power dimensions, the AXYS is about perfect for me. So then if I was 6'4" instead of 5'11" and I was 240 instead of 185 and then pretend I was actually in shape, like reasonably well conditioned. I can't imagine at that point that I wouldn't prefer a sidewinder to my AXYS.
I think the answer becomes fairly obvious at that point. Even though a lot of us (snowmobilers) are heavy - that doesn't mean that we are strong and/or in good shape. I think I'm a fairly prototypical example. Even though I'm 185, if i actually hit the gym a few times a week, I would probably be more like 170. At that point I could probably lift a lot more than I do now as well. I actually have to admit that even though I'm 185, I wouldn't be wildly surprised to find out that I probably couldn't bench a whole lot more than 135.
So in the end, my thoughts are this. If you are over 210 pounds, can bench over 210 pounds, and can run a mile and a half in less than 10 minutes, then I bet you are the kind of guy who would really prefer the power of the SW and wouldn't mind the weight so much. However, I think there are very few of us who fit that "linebacker" kind of body and also can afford to buy a $15k sled.
Well... I am 6'2" 225lbs and my job is a much more strenuous workout most days than any trip to the gym. The Axys felt like a toy, which was GREAT! I can ride the snot out of the slightly heavier Cat but feel like it is as heavy as I would ever want, and I wish I could have the power and reliability in a lighter package. Weight is king for me the way we ride these days. 10 years ago I may have considered something like a Sidewinder, not because I was in better shape and younger but because we rode much more open areas. I wasn't spending my time looking for the line through the trees that would befuddle my buddies if they dare to follow. I also find that even with 120 hp at altitude, the new sleds can already take me where I shouldn't go with ease. Power is the last thing I desire to have more of, it just isn't necessary, for the way I enjoy riding. No way am I going to take the weight penalty and, additional cost because I think it would be more fun. I would hate myself for that I suspect. Then I would also be stuck with an expensive machine that would be difficult to sell used because of... the weight again.
Great discussion fellas...yes The weight does come into play in certain areas forsure....do I wish it weighed the same as a axys ....awh yup. You definitely need to change your riding style and read the terrain a lot better. I do enjoy riding the sled though, believe it or not ....do I ride like burandt...hell no...not many do besides on the keyboard here.
We just installed a power claw on a new 850 pro...great looking sled...curious what didn’t stand up on the axys for you? Buddy was a doo rider but got tired of blowing belts and throwing money away on oil..
We just installed a power claw on a new 850 pro...great looking sled...curious what didn’t stand up on the axys for you? Buddy was a doo rider but got tired of blowing belts and throwing money away on oil..
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I have ridden some highly modified Arctic cat and Yamaha 4 stroke mountain sleds, one even had 350 plus hp according to owner, it was a rocket straight up but a handful and a pig everywhere else, I am a 4 stroke fan, only rode ktm 4 stroke dirt bikes until I broke down a bought a 300 2 stroke, the two stoke is way easier to ride and uses up less energy than the 4 stroke, both had everything done to them, both had suspension re valved by professional shop, I still have a 450 4 stroke but when I go riding tight technical trails it stays home most of the time, YES I can take it the same places as the 2 stroke but I use a lot less energy on the 300 riding the same trails
Yamaha is a huge company with vast experience and resources
someday they will decide to fix the weight issue and they will win the mountain, until that day I will ride lighter 2 strokes, 2 strokes that are getting lighter everyday, so that 100 disadvantage remains,
yes you can remove 20 or 30 pounds pretty easy but so can the 2 stroke sled so that argument is null
Yamaha is a huge company with vast experience and resources
someday they will decide to fix the weight issue and they will win the mountain, until that day I will ride lighter 2 strokes, 2 strokes that are getting lighter everyday, so that 100 disadvantage remains,
yes you can remove 20 or 30 pounds pretty easy but so can the 2 stroke sled so that argument is null
I think rider size and strength does play a role is this. I'm 5'10', 175lbs (which hasent changed in the last 10-15yrs). 2004 was my first 4-stroke sled, 2006 was my first 4-stroke mountain sled. I didnt mind the weight back then, and I did all the common stuff to take weight off them. Fast forward 6 years to 2012 and I was done with having my shoulders burning by mid-afternoon and I switched to a Pro RMK. Fast forward 6 more years and I wouldnt even consider going back to a sled that weighs that much.
I will also add that the last year I rode the 4-stoke it was an Apex, with boost (240hp), and 100lbs of weight removed.
I will also add that the last year I rode the 4-stoke it was an Apex, with boost (240hp), and 100lbs of weight removed.
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