2015 QuickDrive Failure

AdrenalineAddict · Jan 19, 2015

What's a little disturbing to me is the fact that Polaris has been aware of this issue since 2013, here we are in 2015 with the same bolt, design and issue. I guess Corporate America is like the government, a minimum of 3 years to improve coffee brands in the cafeteria.

fullboredragon · Jan 19, 2015

CO Powder said:
Because changing a bolt is too difficult or because you like more weight and friction with, slower response and acceleration?

No, its because I don't like being that guy working on my sled changing a belt or bolt on the hill and holding everybody else up. Or ruining a 1000 dollar deep pow weekend cause of broken drive shaft...

rugbynitro · Jan 19, 2015

CO Powder said:
I'll stick with the Pro. My '13 was awesome, my '14 has been just a little better so far. I don't feel the need to change the gearing and the failures are pretty rare considering how many of these sleds are on the snow now.

I have ridden my buddies brand new '14 Assault back to back with my new '14 Pro and I like the feel of the Pro much better. It is probably because I rode the same thing last year but I think they flat work, right out of the box.

The Assault has a wider stance and much stiffer shocks, your comparison is in no way valid.

My comparison was between an RMK and a Pro with fairly equal specs.

SRXSRULE · Jan 19, 2015

This is not just a belt drive / polaris issue. Lower chain case gear bolts have been breaking for years. I broke the lower bolt on my 06 Apex, the Nytros have had lower bolt breaking issues for years. Eric

hoov165x · Jan 19, 2015

geo said:
Brew. You're a test guy for this kind of stuff. It's been seen before and questioned. Good thing is higher grade bolt seems to eliminate the failure.

How's this for a scenario?
Torque spec'd is at the extreme end for grade of bolt. Maybe compounded by poor torque reading from hard locktite on threads of factory bolt.
Belt is much more rigid compared to chain. Pulley is bolted solid with tight tolerances on splines. Stock belt tension is set tight without tensioner. Slight misalignments (between pulleys) on multiple planes every revolution cause stresses to bolt, with leverage through the head, until simple fracture failure.

Bingo. I think this is right on.

CO Powder · Jan 20, 2015

rugbynitro said:
The Assault has a wider stance and much stiffer shocks, your comparison is in no way valid.

My comparison was between an RMK and a Pro with fairly equal specs.

So what you are telling me is that you can not feel the difference between the QD and the chain case but you can feel the difference 1 inch of ski stance?

I have read that the Pro pulls 4 sled lengths on the Rmk due to the QD system.

I am glad you think you have it wired with the RMK over the Pro. I feel the same about the model I choose to ride.

rugbynitro · Jan 20, 2015

CO Powder said:
I have read that the Pro pulls 4 sled lengths on the Rmk due to the QD system.

Well, if you read it somewhere....it must be true. lol! :face-icon-small-dis

I own both sleds riding in the same conditions so I might know a little something about an honest comparison. Hell, I ride my RMK with friends that have Pro's and we've noticed no difference in performance, just rider skill.

Regardless, I have no interest in arguing with you about what you read in some marketing material. It holds no weight with me.

rrjames · Jan 20, 2015

AdrenalineAddict said:
What's a little disturbing to me is the fact that Polaris has been aware of this issue since 2013, here we are in 2015 with the same bolt, design and issue. I guess Corporate America is like the government, a minimum of 3 years to improve coffee brands in the cafeteria.

There was a recall last year to replace quick drive bolts. If you have not had it done I would head in to your dealer or as others suggest go get some sturdy hardware.

However, Polaris did not ignore the problem.

geo · Jan 20, 2015

winter brew said:
So is this bolt not breaking when a tensioner is used and the belt run looser?

Don't know Brew. I've never had a failure with either set-up.

I was interested in your thoughts since you've questioned this before and failure testing is your trade. Thought you may have come up with some scenarios that make sense to you.
Maybe it's just the same guy overtorquing a low grade bolt on the line. If you have to replace it might as well up go up a grade or 2 with the bolt too.

Seems funny Pro owners are still touchy about this option since only Poo gives everyone the option. Weren't the '15 snowcheck options great. Go which ever direction you want to go.

Someone mentioned don't buy into the hype or believe everything you read. I agree 100%. Pro's are often referred to as underpowered time bombs with flimsy chassis and questionable QC on the 'net. LOL.
If that's your reality, meaning what you have actually seen-experienced, you shouldn't be on one or that model just for your own mental health.

Time bombs? I never had a Dragon but had plenty of early Doo's that left me feeling this way. I have a different reality maybe 'cause of this.
Flimsy? I think Doo shops make more money on chassis repair that Poo shops. I think Cat shops make more money on driveline repair that Poo shops.
QC? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like simple. I like Japanese. I like innovation.
QD? Reality is '13 had some teething problems mostly due to belt construction after the "clamp". On the edge for strength because break-in made a difference. Even with the first year belt most Pro owners spent less money on belts than any '12 PC owner.
Since then ('14 and '15) I think you could say the QD has become as dependable as any OEM drive system. Pretty quite on that front.

My own reality is I've carried 2 spare belts (clutch and QD) for 3 yrs and never pulled them out. Feel comfortable enough to leave them at home now except for that guy Murphy. One of the things I liked about my M-sleds was not having to carry a chain with me anymore.
Chaincase or belt drive. Good or bad. If you think one is a weak link, don't get it.

kylant · Jan 20, 2015

just went to the hardware store and picked up extra bolts. hardened 10.9 grade. the stocks are 8.8. piece of mind. the bolts were actually the same manufacturer JH

Teth-Air · Jan 20, 2015

winter brew said:
So is this bolt not breaking when a tensioner is used and the belt run looser?

I had a bolt break last year while running the TKI Drive on the 14 so it is nothing to do with the belt tension. The bolts seem to shear around 1200 kms and all years are suspect. I was very lucky as the bolt broke on the flats shortly after doing long steep pulls. Remember you have no brakes when the bolt breaks and the pulley falls off. Is it worth waiting or do it now? Incidentally, I re-used the lower bolt when I installed the TKI drive but now Tom at TKI will be supplying a new, stronger bolt with future kits. For my 15, I replaced both top and bottom bolt before the first ride.

winter brew · Jan 20, 2015

The only scenario that I can think of that would cause this bolt to break would be if the driveshaft is deflecting under load, and Im not even sure that would make sense if the sprocket, splined shaft and bolt head always remain in plane, there should be almost zero force on that bolt head. If they can be out of "square" under some condition, that will reduce bolt strength....about 70-80% reduction in shear strength if head is not square with its seating surface.
One question as I havnt had one of these apart in a while...does the bolt tighten against the end of the shaft or does it tighten to the sprocket and possibly leave any gap between bolt and shaft. If it doesnt tighten to the shaft, there lies a cause for breaking the head.

Murph · Jan 20, 2015

geo said:
.....Feel comfortable enough to leave them at home now except for that guy Murphy.....

Hey! I resemble that comment....

Then again, we have a saying around here.

Two is one, one is none..

geo · Jan 20, 2015

winter brew said:
The only scenario that I can think of that would cause this bolt to break would be if the driveshaft is deflecting under load, and Im not even sure that would make sense if the sprocket, splined shaft and bolt head always remain in plane, there should be almost zero force on that bolt head. If they can be out of "square" under some condition, that will reduce bolt strength....about 70-80% reduction in shear strength if head is not square with its seating surface.
One question as I havnt had one of these apart in a while...does the bolt tighten against the end of the shaft or does it tighten to the sprocket and possibly leave any gap between bolt and shaft. If it doesnt tighten to the shaft, there lies a cause for breaking the head.

Maybe actual shear strength of the torqued assy is not the factor in the fail. Maybe it is lost torque lowering overall strength of the assy. Wadda ya think.

The bolt head tightens on a bell washer which tightens on the pulley, leaving a gap to the end of the shaft. No float. Stock pulley has a steel insert for the splines I believe and the OD of the washers contacts this. After market (mine) is aluminum billet through to the splines.
I've felt the need to install a thicker bell washer here (your XM secondary washer) as well as a higher grade bolt torqued to it's max allowable.

I seen similar failures on sleds with non floating secondaries. Usually a better bolt cures it too.

Oh sorry Murph. I meant the other Murph lol

Toad face killah · Jan 20, 2015

Ok everybody. Enough arguing about who is right or wrong. take the supplied info or leave it. I myself think that if there is a possible issue with the bolt it is an easy fix and will do it before it leaves me stranded somewhere. Does anyone have the specs on the bolt to be replaced? diameter, length, thread size???

rmscustom · Jan 20, 2015

I love the belt drive... Pack a extra belt, maybe some bolts, if it blows 10 mins later Bobs ur uncle and your back shredding. Not so much with a chain case and I've seen as many chain cases go as QD belts in the last few years.

bigbone · Jan 20, 2015

If anybody has top & bottom bolt for a 14 for sale I will buy them from you. Just PM me the details. Thanks.

richracer1 · Jan 20, 2015

Just go to the hardware store and buy the following:

2014+ Bottom Bolt - M10x1.25x20 grade 10.9

2014+ Top Bolt - M10x1.25x40 grade 10.9

Real easy and cheaper.

nofuture · Jan 20, 2015

rmscustom said:
I love the belt drive... Pack a extra belt, maybe some bolts, if it blows 10 mins later Bobs ur uncle and your back shredding. Not so much with a chain case and I've seen as many chain cases go as QD belts in the last few years.

It takes a bit more than that to fix. When mine broke, we rode canadian for 20 backcountry miles (good reason to leave the mountain bar on) back to the truck. Then we drove 30 miles to the nearest dealer for a new pulley wheel, stopped at the hardware store for an easy out and drove back to the trail head. Then we loaded up our new parts and a cordless drill and road canadian for 20 miles back to my sled. 20 minutes after that and we were riding again...fyi

AKrider · Jan 20, 2015

CO Powder said:
So what you are telling me is that you can not feel the difference between the QD and the chain case but you can feel the difference 1 inch of ski stance?

I have read that the Pro pulls 4 sled lengths on the Rmk due to the QD system.

I am glad you think you have it wired with the RMK over the Pro. I feel the same about the model I choose to ride.

Really? You honestly believe that belt drive will give a difference of 4 sled lengths! By that logic wouldn't you surmise that drag racers would all run belt drive for that type of advantage? They don't.

rmscustom said:
I love the belt drive... Pack a extra belt, maybe some bolts, if it blows 10 mins later Bobs ur uncle and your back shredding. Not so much with a chain case and I've seen as many chain cases go as QD belts in the last few years.

I've had one whole chaincase failure in 30 years of riding. It was due to me being a stupid high school kid who didn't bother to tighten the chain and it snapped and blew a hole through the case. Chains are stupid reliable and just need the lube changed once in a while and the tension checked every few hundred miles. Pretty easy and damn near bulletproof, plus the ease, reasonable cost and options to change your gearing make chains the better option. If they ever get belts to that same level than great, I'll run one too, but we aren't even close to being there now.

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