S
noway should a worn belt lightswitch off 600 rpms flying down a trail.top speed maybe.
Axys rpm fade ?
- Thread starter dexter
- Start date
If in fact what people with 'the problem' are experiencing the same thing, there has to be a common root to the issue.
The other situation is that some people are seeing worn parts (clutches or belts) and seeing RPM drop and are attributing it to "fade" when in reality it isn't the same fade that others are describing. The on and off like a light switch between 7800 and 8200 RPMS is not a clutching or belt problem IMO. TO me, that is an electrical sensor sending the motor into limp mode, using more oil and fuel and not opening the exhaust valves to the last stage.
My opinion is pure speculation, however, because I have not seen, rode, or worked on a sled with the fade issue. Just summarizing and trying to make sense of everything I've read on the interwebz...
Step away from the keyboard and ride.
That Phenominon is quite common with your brand of choice also (skudoo).
I'm not saying there aren't people out there with legitimate and difficult to solve problems - I'm sure there are. I'm saying it APPEARS that lumping all that other stuff in there has made it seem like there is a more specific, widespread problem.
Not sure - I seem to get a season out of the OEM ones before they drop some RPM become a spare, and I was ok with that. Or maybe my 2015 will be better than my 2011 was - the clutches on the 15 do run cooler.
G
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...e-issues-here-results-polaris-testing-13.html
Been following that thread pretty closely and it seems to make sense what some people are pointing out.
Been following that thread pretty closely and it seems to make sense what some people are pointing out.
Read the whole thread. Seems to be pushing toward heat buildup in the pipe. How does that explain the guys seeing fade sometimes when cold and sometimes when warmed up and heat soaked? I'm not buying it quite yet
I did not snow check this year because of this issue!!!! I feel polaris will leave us hanging if the sleds are delivered this fall and this issue has not been resolved. The one that will take all the heat from this is our dealers and i feel that there will be no support from polaris. Good Luck my friends I hope I'm wrong and you have a great season next year on your new sleds!!!!
J
You are VERY WRONG my friend. I'm a HCS member. The reason you are hearing about the RPM problems on HCS is because they have a lot of trail riders that rode the NEW Axys models with the new HO motor this year. I'm here on SNOWEST because I just SnowChecked a new SKS. Snowest has the Mountain Guys with more Mountain riding info.
I have been dealing with RPM issues all year. My dealer hasn't had any fixes for it. Polaris has no answers for it. I just took a beating on a trade in "On my 2015 Axys" for a new one. I would have never traded my 1st year sled if it didn't have issues that NOBODY SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO FIX!! I just CAN'T go through another year of wrenching and testing, wrenching and testing. My buddy also has a Pro-S 800 with RPM issues. He has been to the dealer several different times for them to address the RPM problem. No Luck for him either. Your blind if you don't believe there is an issue and foolish if you're falling for Polaris's claims that a new Belt fixes the problem. THAT'S a JOKE!!
If you think they are making up **** to bring people to the HCS site you're totally wrong. In fact there have been so many different THREADS started on the HCS site about RPM issues that the moderators have shut down and closed out many different threads that were started. It has become a rather heated discussion from time to time and people have had to be reminded to keep it clean and on topic. I've had several threads pulled because I've been more than pissed off after some of my rides this season.
A mild day of Fade or RPM loss has had me missing 400RPM.
A Bad day of issues has me missing the mark by 600-1000 RPM.
Motor completely changes tone when affected. No more quick spool up. Fun Factor goes way down.
I believe the # of sleds affected is fairly Low. Going to guess 5%. Just my GUESS guys. The HCS site has a higher Pole # I think because some people don't really know what the issue is. I believe some people may have read the RPM problems and thought they had the issue when in fact a new belt probably did fix some of the performance issues of lower RPM reported. Although people who have been plagued with a truly Bad Sled will get nowhere with a new belt. The Dealer can't fix it. Polaris has no answer and some very good mechanics and Dyno guys haven't found the answer yet either.
All I can say is that if the RMK line up has the issue next year you will see this Snowest site flooded with complaints just like the HCS site is seeing. The moderator here on Snowest will then likely have to step in and calm some people down. If you pay $14,000 for your new RMK/SKS and it's falling flat on its face ALL YEAR with no fix for the problem. I bet your fingers will be typing some complaints for people to hear. When the dealers can't do anything for you and your personal labor and paid labor get you nowhere you will also lean on the Forums for answers.
J
Heat is always a bad thing for any sled. My sled has the issue on single digit cold days, Perfect snow conditions, Warm days and also flicks like a switch from Good to Bad. Sometimes Fades other times just flat out missing RPM all day. No Rhyme / No Reason. Oh, by the way my temperature readings are always nice and cool. Average running temp is between 120-130. Runs consistently 15 degrees cooler than my Pro-R 800 ran. Maybe there are hotter temps in the system that the gauge isn't reflecting??? IDK
Jeckyl-n-Hyde all the way!!
I believe your story 100%. And the diagnosis on this is probably going to be very difficult for the affected sleds like yours and I can understand exactly how you feel. I was one of those idiots that snowchecked a 2005 Skidoo RT 1000 back in April 2004. 2 years of runnability issues, pulling my hair out, etc. and the complaint's sound identical.
The "change in engine tone" with lower RPM is the big one in my mind. I'd hope the people that have actually had a loss of RPM on 2005-2015 Polaris CFI's realize they never heard the "change of engine tone" with a worn belt.
This is exactly "one" of the issues we were having in 04-05 and 05-06. I was a little skeptical when I saw the electric exhaust valves on the new 800HO. The Skidoo RT's had notorious issues with theirs in the beginning and this "change of tone" from the motor being reported and accompanied with the loss of RPM's would require adjustment of the valves. Tempermental. I was adjusting valves on a weekly or monthly basis.
Could this be an exhaust valve and/or control issue? Absolutely! DTR has seen it.
The next thing that caused this issue: Exhaust system....mostly silencers that created weird pressure issues which then would cause the exhaust valves to go wacko. You could take a perfectly good running 1000 and put twin pipes on it and have the exact same complaint that these guys are having.
Could this be an exhaust system/pressure/or temp issue? Absolutely!
Tony mentioned a possibility of the electrical system.....Ding Ding Ding....Polaris has been very weak with their electrical systems. Anybody that does driveability work in automotive/transmission and chases wires and sensors for a living absolutely laughs at the Polaris electrical system. We all know how weak the Pro is for available power. Now Polaris has added an electric oil pump ECU Controlled and electric controlled exhaust valves again ECU controlled. This is not the simple on/off exhaust solenoid of the Pro.
So the big question is....What did Polaris do different in the Supplying Power to all of the extra electrical stuff on the 800HO? On this type of system, any type of runnability problem could present itself if there is not enough power/voltage/noise, etc. to run all of the added electrical components. Something the RT 1000 was plagued with as well...intermittent loss of RPM's with everything sound. Major rework of the ground system solved by some guy back east fixed what was causing low voltages, etc.!!!!
I think we must also consider that this might be an electrical noise issue. Electrical noises will wreak havoc on TPS and VSS signals. Early Cummins diesels and some Powerstroke's have been inflicted with impossible to solve runnability engine/trans control issues only to find out that the electrical system was louder than a Ted Nugent concert. I installed a noise filter on a problematic TPS sensitive Pro 2 years ago. Same fix I came up with on those trucks.
Polaris might get lucky and find out this is a mapping issue causing a hot pipe to go cold or remap the opening/staging of the exhaust valves. if so then a simple reflash would take care of it. I also think we should take it easy on the guys that did shell out $14K this year and are having problems.
I was really hoping Polaris (who already builds the best handling and riding machine) would bring us a 21st century electrical system in these sleds. Take a good look at an ETEC and compare. I am convinced if they did, alot of the weird complaints would vanish.
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According to those who commented on electrical fit and finish of the 2016, the wiring is much better.
It might be too early to tell and i really didn't pay too much of attention to that portion when I looked, but lets stay optimistic :help:
Thanks Dave, I seem to recall you chasing the RT issue back in the early days of dootalk (SummitRev on dootalk). Had a buddy with an 05 RT, he had his share of issues, but when it ran, it really ran. Did doo ever come up with an OEM fix?
I'm not sure why you're giving me neg rep when you're confirming exactly what I said...?
J
Sorry for the negative thumbs down I gave your thread. "JayNelson" You do have some good points in a lot of your threads I've read but I guess I'm a little sensitive with the RELATIVELY SOLVABLE PROBLEMS remark. Replacing a belt is simple YES but anybody that runs around crying problems with RPM and hasn't tried putting a new belt on deserves a slap. The other things you mentioned as relatively solvable problems "Worn Clutch Parts, Bleeding air from Cooling system and faulty factory set ups" I don't personally think we "The Buyers" should have to be troubleshooting with a brand new 14k sled. Besides that my dealer checked all those areas of concern along with others for me with no problems found. So the relatively solvable problems haven't been solvable for me or many other people. I mentioned that there probably were some inexperienced people that read about RPM issues and assumed they had it but hadn't even tried swapping their belt yet. Yes, I'm sure some people are completely green to any common snowmobile knowledge and might have easily fixable issues. The problem is that most people with real RPM issues have made multiple trips to their dealer. Spent Countless hours researching and put a lot of their own time and even paid out cash to outside mechanics to figure out the source of their problems with no luck at all. I think I mentioned GUESSING a true RPM problem with 5% of the sleds. Some polls state higher numbers "20%" but I counted out and downed the issue a little to come up with my guess of 5% affected with un-fixable RPM issues. I've owned IQ's, Indy's and Pro-R's and always had great luck. My past Polaris sleds I've bought new were flawless. I guess when I buy a brand new snowmobile I feel I should be able to GAS-n-GO. I don't want to pay 14k and spend my riding season trouble shooting problems. I don't want to even screw with issues that are considered easily fixable for some. When it's beyond what I want to screw with I expect my dealer to be able to fix it. I don't like when my dealer tells me theirs nothing more to look into right now. I don't want to wait for another year of testing to try to figure this out. 14k and a whole year spent troubleshooting is not what I paid for. PERIOD. So anybody that thinks 5% of all the built H.O's having RPM problems is a small number... I just feel it is unacceptable.
Generic problems / Intermittent problems, etc... I guess I could live with them if they were fixable by Polaris if I couldn't figure it out. Not having or knowing when the solution to the problem will be revealed is totally disapointing and gets me pretty wild from time to time.
On a different note: 7 sleds tested by Polaris in Maine. All were supposably fixed with a new belt. These people are done for the season now. They won't know until next year if their sleds are actually fixed. I know they aren't fixed but at least they got a new belt out of it. If the sled owner hadn't already changed a belt don't you think the dealer should have at least tested the belt theory before they handed these problematic sleds over to Polaris engineers that flew out to Maine for special testing. For them to claim these sleds are all fixed now is a direct slap in the face to the sled owners and dealerships. I appreciate that they did go out and do some research but I'd rather they just say they are collecting some valuable research that they need to evaluate and go over. I didn't personally like them coming out and saying these affected sleds were all fixed with new belts. JUST BOGUS I.M.O
M
You better not be right.
5% is huge - it is a DISASTER...
5% is huge - it is a DISASTER...
talked to my dealer tonight. 13 axys sold. not one 800 came back with issues outside of normal recalls. 1 600 axys blew due to leaking crank seal.
he was totally unaware of RPM fade issue. This dealer was literally sold out of inventory by christmas due to us getting 2' foot of snow in november. He doesn't do a ton of sleds a year but I think its a good look at how this can be blown out of proportion on the forums with amount of affected sleds.
I'm totally sure there is RPM issues and hope they get it figured out before my 16 comes in. after following this topic on HC all winter i'm leaning on the side of stator being culprit.
he was totally unaware of RPM fade issue. This dealer was literally sold out of inventory by christmas due to us getting 2' foot of snow in november. He doesn't do a ton of sleds a year but I think its a good look at how this can be blown out of proportion on the forums with amount of affected sleds.
I'm totally sure there is RPM issues and hope they get it figured out before my 16 comes in. after following this topic on HC all winter i'm leaning on the side of stator being culprit.
J
I agree and hope the 5% is higher than the true number as well.
Here is a TRUE statement. I only know 2 people that bought the new Switchback "S" 800. (( Myself & My Buddy )) Both of us have the RPM problems. His sled was brought to the dealer several times with no fix to his problems. His sled also was one of the sleds that was tested by Polaris and given a FREE BELT. I elected to try a few changes myself before bringing my sled to the dealership for them to have a crack at it. They were un-succesful in their attempt to fix by the way.
Maybe myself and my Buddy should have run out and bought lottery tickets.
We have actually thought that just maybe we beat the **** out of our sleds harder than everybody else out there? He has been a mechanic his whole life and we both maintain our sleds better than most. He has worked on his sled this year so much that it isn't even funny. I elected to just go pound the snot out of it right to the finish. My sled has been traded and is sitting at the dealer. I hope to get one of the 95% next year. He is going to continue to work with Polaris and be a test monkey next year. I'm not a mechanic and I don't want to be. I learned more about sleds this year than I've learned through all of my lives sledding experiences combined. It's nice to gain knowledge but I'd much rather of been putting on miles grinning ear to ear.
just curious. were both your sleds left stock or did you add clutching/cans/mods to them at all after they came off the floor. not instigating, i'm just curious. looking for something that might be in common to help out later maybe?
S
brand loyal.complain and buy another one.
