Mike Wiegele: A Constructive Plan

mountainhorse · May 14, 2009

I had posted up recently on threads concerning Mike Wiegele and his latest media campaign against snowmobiling.
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Call+backcountry+snowmobile/1560067/story.html

Besides venting... My posts really served no constructive purpose.

I belive that this recent publicity and others like it make this an important issue for both Canadian AND USA snomobilers.

I propose this plan to help deal with, in a constructive way, Mr. Wiegele’s position that snowmobile deaths related to avalanches have become an epidemic and that snomobiles should be BANNED in the backcountry because of it.

We, as an organized group of snowmobilers, should kick off an early season meeting of snomobilers in Blue River to conduct a sled specific Avalanche training and awarness session for a large group of snomobilers in this area. Late November/early December….

This could be conducted with the assistance of the Blue River Community, administration, Businesses and as many other supporters as possible. Companies like SOS, BCA, ABS and other avy backpack companies, BRP, Arctic Cat, Polaris, Yamaha, and the Canadian/USA Avalanche centers could be invited to participate.

Make it an effective and informative session with classroom and on snow sessions that would last a long weekend and have good media coverage to promote the better image of snomobiles and the awarness of avalance dangers in the backcountry.

This would also serve the purpose of training good ambassadors for the sport to spread the word in our own communities and riding areas about safe/responsible operation in avalanche areas.

I think that opening this opportunity, with great press coverage, local/regional support would be a step forward in promoting the responsible, aware image of sledding in the backcountry.

Publicly invite Mr. Wiegele and others to participate in a constructive way rather than generating the bad media that he has produced towards snowmobiling in the backcountry.

I believe that now, this year, is a VERY important “tipping point” for national awareness of snowmobiles that could go either way in the fostering of a GOOD image towards snowmobiling. If the Public has this reckless image of backcountry snowmobilers… it won’t be long before we are relegated to the radar enforced trails in many of the areas we love to explore the beauty of the mountains.

PLEASE, no bashing of Mr. Wiegele on this post… Let’s focus on how to make the situation a positive one for the sledding community as a whole.

Also, BTW, I am an American; I've enjoyed sledding often in B.C. as well as having been on Heli trips with Wiegele and with other heli operators. I am an avid snowmobiler and snowboarder and I consider the Backcountry experience, no matter what I ride, to be a big part of my life.

Please post up your suggestions for a plan of action on this in A CONSTRUCTIVE WAY!

Thanks in Advance

mountainlife · May 14, 2009

very well said ...... i would be there forsure .

King o the Hill · May 14, 2009

Interesting enough that you posted this.... as the SECOND I saw this artcile I cut and pasted to my website www.westcoastsledders.com and posted "Help us Help Ourselves".... I would actually liken it and supoport a program similar to the USCG program of mandatory classes and mnimum safety equipment requirements before the machinery hits the snow. There has been an UNPRECEDENTED amount of casualties this year over any other, and Eric I can tell you as I sit here... this is the only guy we have heard from.... think of the other perceptions that are out there that people keep to themselves. We have a responsibility to begin to at least shape the perceptions others have that we are a bunch of wreckless hooligans. We don't want to be in those situations anymore than he wants us back there endangering ourselves and others.... the flip side to this is the lives that are at risk during our rescues as well..... so long windedly................ yeah.... we need to look at something and I can tell ya it starts when we get our "bros" into this sport by helping them get the right gear (not just the coolest jacket and helmet but the beacons, probes, shovels, maps, radios and the like) and the dealers that sell folks back country equipment to do the due diligence of a weekend "break-in" day with their clients..... I would love to "constructively" help ourselves before we get into too much big brother involvement.... or at least lets get the manufacturers involved.... might be good for the film festival eh !!! LOL

SnowSnob · May 14, 2009

That sounds like a good idea in several ways. May I suggest for the US guys that every year they have a 2-day course in West Yellowstone. Unfortunately it's not in the beginning of the season but it would make a great place to do something like this. Especially with A LOT of the midwest boys that go there.

Super B · May 14, 2009

SnowSnob said:
That sounds like a good idea in several ways. May I suggest for the US guys that every year they have a 2-day course in West Yellowstone. Unfortunately it's not in the beginning of the season but it would make a great place to do something like this. Especially with A LOT of the midwest boys that go there.

It also would not be a bad idea to put a course together at Hay Days for us Midwestern guys.

Original Tetonice · May 14, 2009

It has nothing to do with which side of the boarder you live...You can not teach Self Disicpline.

I'll get bashed for saying this .... Sled Video Makers need to clean up there act. There video sends the wrong message.

It's become "cool" to be "extreme" and until that changes more avy's will continue to occure.

Humans are creatures of habit.

OT

Clarke673 · May 14, 2009

I almost feel powerless in this issue. The amount of people who want to shut all public recreations down far out numbers those that want to abolish it. Also, people who are snowmobiles often are outsiders anyways and many don't ever do anything about their rights. They complain, but few do anything else about it. I think the best way is for us to right Palin and try and get her and her husband to stand up for us. That’s the only conceivable way i can see of us having any sort of victory.

Only other thing i can say is that i WILL be back country rider till i die, if they close down my local lands i will be turboing my sled, getting an ABS pack, and i will be preparing to be an outlaw.

James Clarke

Nelson · May 14, 2009

Banning the sport is a little extreme if you ask me, but I see a point in teaching everyone the dangers and what to lookout for when it comes to avalanches. Its tragic, the number of deaths we had as a whole this year in our sport. Some may have been preventable but thats why they are called accidents. We don't outlaw vehicles because people get into wrecks and die so this is no different. Accidents are preventable but they are still accidents, they're gonna happen no matter what condition your in.

MH, you make a good point in getting the manufactures involved. It would be good to see Avy programs put out by the companies. A way for them so start could be to include a Avy safety DVD with the purchase of a new sled. The problem with having an Avy class is it would have to happen as a major conferance somewhere, it would be pretty expensive to host them at numurous locations throughout the season. But, then again comes the problem with people not wanting to drive long distances to attend a safety meeting they don't necessarily have to attend. This is a tough question to get figured out.

Beacons and Probes are must for everyone and will greater increase your chances of surviving and Avalanche. I would figure cost not being much of an option over ones life.

I hope this can get resolved in an easy non extreme matter. This route would be totally out of control.

Drifter · May 14, 2009

Sounds like a really good idea. Blue river might not be the best place to have it though as there is only two hotels and no cell service.

xrated · May 14, 2009

Super B said:
It also would not be a bad idea to put a course together at Hay Days for us Midwestern guys.

There was talk of trying to get a class at Quadna but to short of notice stopped it.

I think it would be great if we could get this stuff going out west and here in the midwest at one of the ski hills or just at someones place.

EricW · May 15, 2009

I'm not sure how the Canadian Government is structured politically, but here in Eastern Washington we have also included local elected officials at all levels to get into the issues.

I think it would be a great sign of support to have local Canadian elected/appointed officials endorse this type of program at a minimum, and participate in a best case scenario. I think it sends a strong message when you have political officials who will be taking a position on possible legislation/closures to be involved well prior to that point.

Let them know that their voter base needs their help and endorsement to save lives and that their participation and public exposure will go a long way in that direction. I love to see our local County Commissioners and State/Federal congressional delegates along for a ride and later at collaboration meetings. Many are members of the local Snowmobile & ATV clubs.

I really feel this type of involvement is much easier for the politician to sign on to and get proactive with rather than waiting for them to feel the huge pressures of the "Yes or No" decisions that they have to make if nothing proactive is done and they are left to deal with the strong influences of special interests at the last minute.

Great idea MH, lets add local elected/appointed officials to the list of supporters and attendees. EW

RideGuy · May 15, 2009

Good Post M.H.

I believe that mountain riding is still in it's infancy as a sport. Technology has elevated the bar. We are still learning the hard way from our mistakes But we are learing how to minimize risk to ourselves and our riding partners.

We have pushed many limits and we live in a region where temperatures fluctuate so much that we have never had a stable snow pack..... We have had a few good years for snow pack but still those years were risky to all back country users.

Crown land is for the taxed people to use and should not be dictated on how to use it by any one biased individual.

People need to educate themselves on how to minimize the risks. Seems like common sense in every other aspect of our lives because things have been tried and true. Mountain Riding has become apart of the many new extreme sports. Anyone can bias numbers to prove a point.

My point is that our sport is evolving for the better so give us a chance. Life is full of risks and how we manage them determines if we make the next day or not.

If you don't look at the cross walk sign, walk out into traffic, get hit by a bus and die. Should somebody shut down all the roads in the world because someone didn't read the sign and couldn't stay off the street? Obviously not because it has become common sense and was apart of the learning curve......

My heart goes out to all the friends and family of the pioneers of our sport that have been disrespected by the mass public, for paying the ultimate price in bringing education to an evolving sport. We will all join you one day, one way or another and rest assured that your passings were not in vain.

Ride in Peace

snowww1 · May 15, 2009

Great idea to have a class in Blue River. I would suggest contacting zacs tracs to set up an avalanche class. www.zacstracs.com. They do a great job with classes in Canada.
I feel one of the points Mike Wiegele was trying to make is that all the publicity from the avalanche fatalities is affecting all business in the area. If you get a class going, contact him and see if he's willing to send some of his guides to help teach.
We all need to be proactive in preventing accidents. Encourage all your riding partners to take classes, buy avalanche equipment and practice with it. Don't ride with people who have not taken a class and who don't carry all the gear. Education and altering your riding according to the danger make all the difference.
If you are interested in an avalanche class, please contact me. Classes scheduled for next year in CO, WY, NE, ND, SD, IA, MN, & WI. Also working on the schedule for rescue classes (on the snow)in the upper midwest, CO and WY. I can bring a class to your location. Discount on avalanche gear for taking the class. 15 years of avalanche instructing experience and 20 years of mountain snowmobiling experience. Please contact me if you have any questions, I may be reached at 970-390-9433. duffyww1@aol.com
Mike Duffy

Reese · May 15, 2009

Great class!

Mike Duffy's classes are great! I will be attending another one of his class's before next years season kicks off. Please take the initiative to attend an avy training class.

Trenchmaster · May 15, 2009

Some good ideas on getting a different point of view out to the public about sledding but I think most minds are already made up.I wonder what the percentages are for the number of avalanche victims, compaired to the number of riders on the hills? When our group started riding Mcbride ten years ago we would see three or four other groups out during the week, and maybe ten or twelve out on the weekend. Now if we go during the weekend there are easily 50 rigs in the Renshaw parking lot. If you combine the increased numbers with the better performance of the new sleds, the numbers are bound to go up. As far as getting politicians involved, most will do whatever is in thier best interest for being re-elected, and that probably does not include standing up for sledders!!! More sledders on better sleds, more bad publicity about avalanche deaths, enviromental issues, all add up to more restrictions on access to public lands. Sorry to sound so negative but we should all enjoy it while we can, JMHO!!!!

mountainhorse · May 16, 2009

I think that it would be a great idea to have a gathering for Avalanche education and backcountry awareness in general.

I think that Blue River would be an ideal place to have a very PUBLIC, sled focused, event. This will be only one, but it could be the "Model" for other local and regional gatherings to promote both safer sledding and the image of snowmobiling in general.

Also, as EricW said... get some of the local politicians and officials involved.

Invite Wiegele in a public way both in writing and thru the media to participate in this event as he said, publicly, that snowmobilers need to be better educated in the dangers of Avys.

If he accepts it may be a start of a positive direction for a better understanding among us. If he declines he will show his position and lack of interest in the safety of other backcountry users.

As Mike Duffy said above... if Wiegele can participate in an event to help minimize this "epidemic" of sled related avy deaths then he will be helping the problem rather than driving a divisive wedge between the snowmobilers and the Heli Operators.

Bad press is horrible for the sport...it reaches far beyond the mountains into public opinion which decides the use of the Crown Lands in the first place.

idaho trainer · May 16, 2009

avalanche awareness

as an avalanche awareness class trainer in idaho, we saw our best turnout since the program started this year with almost 800 classroom participants and 500 field class participants across the state. we work inconjunction with the three avalanche centers in our state and our classes are free to the public. this next season we will be working a level one class geared towards snowmobilers. it simply isn't enough to buy safety equipment anymore. if you look at the fatality numbers in motorized to nonmotorized, we are still in second place. if wiegele thinks he could put skiers into any of those areas and not trigger any slides he is dead wrong.with the conditions in canada this year i'm sure he had a bad year, but it wouldn't have been any better with less fatalaties on sleds. the skiers were simply looking at avy conditions,and making the right choice. i'm all for helping out however i can, and non residents can take classes for free also.

King o the Hill · May 17, 2009

snowww1 said:
Great idea to have a class in Blue River. I would suggest contacting zacs tracs to set up an avalanche class. www.zacstracs.com. They do a great job with classes in Canada.
I feel one of the points Mike Wiegele was trying to make is that all the publicity from the avalanche fatalities is affecting all business in the area. If you get a class going, contact him and see if he's willing to send some of his guides to help teach.
We all need to be proactive in preventing accidents. Encourage all your riding partners to take classes, buy avalanche equipment and practice with it. Don't ride with people who have not taken a class and who don't carry all the gear. Education and altering your riding according to the danger make all the difference.
If you are interested in an avalanche class, please contact me. Classes scheduled for next year in CO, WY, NE, ND, SD, IA, MN, & WI. Also working on the schedule for rescue classes (on the snow)in the upper midwest, CO and WY. I can bring a class to your location. Discount on avalanche gear for taking the class. 15 years of avalanche instructing experience and 20 years of mountain snowmobiling experience. Please contact me if you have any questions, I may be reached at 970-390-9433. duffyww1@aol.com
Mike Duffy

How 'bout NV and CA??? we would love to see that kind of expertise... and we have some of the most unpredictable snow around with our temp swings

0007 · May 17, 2009

Original Tetonice said:
It has nothing to do with which side of the boarder you live...You can not teach Self Disicpline.

I'll get bashed for saying this .... Sled Video Makers need to clean up there act. There video sends the wrong message.

It's become "cool" to be "extreme" and until that changes more avy's will continue to occure.

Humans are creatures of habit.

OT

That's an answer, ban videographer's?, just dont record the evidence and it will somehow help?
And I dont know about you but i teach my kid self discipline every chance I get
Ironicaly it was extreme ski'ing that started the whole "Extreme" thing in the first place
Besides Avy's dont happen on extreme slope angles, they happen between 25 and 45 degrees, right where an entry level rider rides

Veedy · May 17, 2009

Original Tetonice said:
It has nothing to do with which side of the boarder you live...You can not teach Self Disicpline.

I'll get bashed for saying this .... Sled Video Makers need to clean up there act. There video sends the wrong message.

It's become "cool" to be "extreme" and until that changes more avy's will continue to occure.

Humans are creatures of habit.

OT

And I suppose they should ban CSI and every other sleuth show on TV, because they promote violence and actually teach you the science behind murder which would give you the upper edge if you chose to do so. Do these shows influece you ? probably not, because you are human and make your everyday choices based on common sense, right ?

you should probably think about what your typing and proof read your posts before you hit the submit button, OT. You make yourself look like a real knob. But then I don't have to tell you that, youve been told a million times already.

Mike Wiegele: A Constructive Plan

Well-known member

Member

Member

Well-known member

Somewhere between too dumb to quit and flat earth

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Similar threads