* New Release * Long Rod Torque Master 5 Dragon Motor

indydan · Mar 19, 2012

PRO Motors

backman said:
So if I have a running 2011 800 CFI-2, what will it take as a minimum, to get it safe? Cylinder, rods, and crank work? No modification of case is necessary? Using original pistons?

Regards Fredrik

Hello, Cylinder MOD, Crankshaft work ( Long Rod Kit ), and stock pistons are fine, No case work is needed but I do alter the case and PTO Bearing set-up on the TM warranty motors.

indydan · Mar 19, 2012

LoudHandle said:
Just curious how you add the bridge between the front and back skirts? It looks like there is a much smoother transition on your updated cylinders, do you press a sleeve in or add weld to the stock cylinder skirts or achieve it by some other means?

Hello, Its not a sleeve, Its all done by welding & then after machining they are replated.

Dan

beamslayer · Mar 20, 2012

Hey Dan can you explain why some engines last longer than others.Some of the pros are going 4000 miles no problem then others with less than 1000 miles are losing skirts.Operator error or just the luck of the draw?
By using a longer rod that moves the piston higher up the cylinder wall so there is less stress on the skirt is that correct? Than you add a spacer to raise the cylinder that decreases the rod angle. Why wouldn't polaris do this it seems simple enough.
If I decide to use your kit can I run my PA head and still get the warranty?

indydan · Mar 22, 2012

beamslayer said:
Hey Dan can you explain why some engines last longer than others.Some of the pros are going 4000 miles no problem then others with less than 1000 miles are losing skirts.Operator error or just the luck of the draw?
By using a longer rod that moves the piston higher up the cylinder wall so there is less stress on the skirt is that correct? Than you add a spacer to raise the cylinder that decreases the rod angle. Why wouldn't polaris do this it seems simple enough.
If I decide to use your kit can I run my PA head and still get the warranty?

Great questions.

Its not all luck. As for motors with low mileage failure, and some motors that go thousands & thousands of miles with no problems.

I saw the same thing on the 800 Big Blocks, But the problems were completely different & less complex on the old motor.

The new motor has completely different set of problems.

#1 - We talked about the rod ratio already.
#2 - * ( This one is complex and dangerous to talk about ) *
The Arctic Suzuki motors have been talked about and their poor rod ratios and why some of them last so long. As anger800 mentioned..... Suzuki has always been able to make really good motors on the edge of perfromance & design strength. The Polaris small block has to things working against it as far has sleeve extensions breaking.

A - The small block likes to rev and likes to get into a area where one might tend to thing things are starting to resonate.
B - Engine mounting I.E. very ridge chassis.

Back in the days of the 800 XCR triple you could run those motors for thousands of miles with no problems...... Then change the motor mounts to the harder durometer and the front of the cylinders started to break.

By adding the corner sleeve supports to the cylinder 2 things have been accomplished.
1 - sleeve strength increased.
2- the overal radial length of the sleeve has been increased & resonant frequency has moved reducing stress on the sleeve.

Its not just rod ratio that causes the the sleeves to break.

And yes the warranty is Good with the Power Addiction Head.

Dan

beamslayer · Mar 22, 2012

I have to ask any chance of a big bore kit???
So on the cfi2 engines do you install all new bearings on the crank or just inspect them.
What will piston to cylinder clearance end up at?
Is there a extra charge if cylinders skirts need to be welded?
It is good to hear we can use a aftermarket head. Will you be offering a head with your high alt kit?
Thanks Dan

indydan · Mar 22, 2012

question

Hello Beamslayer

beamslayer said:
I have to ask any chance of a big bore kit??? I will not be offering a Big Bore Kit for either CFI4, or CFI2
So on the cfi2 engines do you install all new bearings on the crank or just inspect them. The 5 year motor starts with a brand new crankshaft, Crankcase & Cylinder.
What will piston to cylinder clearance end up at? Sorry, But I am not giving out the clearance they are set at.
Is there a extra charge if cylinders skirts need to be welded? All cylinders are Modified.
It is good to hear we can use a aftermarket head. Will you be offering a head with your high alt kit? At this point Power Addiction heads can be used, I will be working with them this summer to have a head ready by fall for high elevation.
Thanks Dan

Slayer the Answers in Red
Dan

beamslayer · Mar 22, 2012

Not to sound like a *** but can you define new cases,and cranks.? Are you making your own cases or just refurbishing are cores?
Dan I have not seen that much red since I was in english class and thats been a looooong time.
Thanks for your patience

indydan · Mar 23, 2012

beamslayer said:
Not to sound like a *** but can you define new cases,and cranks.? Are you making your own cases or just refurbishing are cores?
Dan I have not seen that much red since I was in english class and thats been a looooong time.
Thanks for your patience

LOL!! No-problem. The 5 year motor is built using a

Brand new POLARIS - Crankshaft ( Rods are changed ) Brand new 2010 case for all 08/09 & 2010. Brand new Polaris 2010 Cylinder used for all 08,09 & 2010 motors.

The 3 year are built from all used core parts that have been rebuilt.

Dan

victorsledneck · Apr 13, 2012

Dan -Great job on the many hours of R&D. I know you do your homework and aim to make riding less stressful for some. Does the clutching and the size or angle of helix play part in the side loading or engine failures of the newer sleds?

Norway · May 3, 2012

Have 2011 pro with 620 miles.

rod-kit + new BETTER pistons? Would be a good seller for new/almost new pro's !!

Red Beron · May 9, 2012

Info on your engine

I have to replace my engine if I take the engine out and you rebuild it do you have someone who can install. I do not trust myself and dont want to spend a dime at my dealer. I live in Duluth MN and could bring my chassis down when you want it. If so how much would it cost me. I would like to have my clutch gone through also. thank you Dale

indydan · May 10, 2012

Red Beron said:
I have to replace my engine if I take the engine out and you rebuild it do you have someone who can install. I do not trust myself and dont want to spend a dime at my dealer. I live in Duluth MN and could bring my chassis down when you want it. If so how much would it cost me. I would like to have my clutch gone through also. thank you Dale

Thanks Victor.

Rune what r you asking ??

Dale you can bring the complete sled and drop it off, Motor in & out is pretty reasonable in the summer but gets about 30% higher when fall & winter get here. In & out is just based on shop time pretty easy in & out on your sled. Clutches can be done no-problem at the same time.

Dan

Dan

Mopar21277 · May 10, 2012

Massively interesting thread and amazing work Dan; why Poo doesn't have you up in Roseau designing new engines is a mystery, given that the costs of warranty work on these engines would pay the salary for 20-30 good engineers like you...

From the small block history which you've written up, it is obvious the 64mm stroke motors are the best that they've designed, and this is evidenced by thousands of customers.

Do you offer a hop-up package for these motors? Specifically a 727 or 797 setup which is dependable, trailable and would probably surpass the performance of the stock 800 CFIs?

indydan · May 11, 2012

Small Blocks

Hi Mopar, I am not much of a follower & you have to drink the Kool-Aid kiss the a$$es of many to fit in at Polaris sled division ( To bad the Victory engineers don't help out the sled guys ) The CFI 4 & 2 injector 800's are small blocks.

And they have been bred into 800's ( I.E. ) 797 Big bore. which is a stroked & bored 440/600 or more accurate a stroked & bored 700 cfi which was born of the 440/600.

I do not do Big Bore twins at all. Power Addiction & Carls Cycle Offer Custom Cylinder Big Bores, Power Addiction is going to run the longer Rod which is more costly but a better long life package.

Dan

Norway · May 13, 2012

indydan said:
Rune what r you asking ??

Dan

Dan, I compiled your offers with just minimum info on what they contain. I might have asked about #2 here, but I believe that one includes the cylinder skirt mods, right?
Was thinking of just rods and better pistons, no cylinder mod. Sure you'll sell if anyone asks, just curious on price.

#1 Full LR-TM5: The Motor is fully assembled, Case, Crank, Pistons, Cylinder, & Head. You just add your ignition & fuel system. This motor requires a core return.
Price - $4500.00 Stock Compression ratio.

#2 Basic LR Conv, Includes Torque Master Top-End w/ new pistons & Gaskets. & LR Torque Master Bottom-End. 2 year Top-end & Bottom-end Warranty - $2500.00
This Price is assuming all your parts are rebuildable.

#3 A Torque Master Top-End Kit is - $895.00 exchange. Kit includes Cylinder & 2 Piston Kits.

Mopar21277 · May 15, 2012

The $2500 kit should be a huge hit Dan, as there are people basically giving away D8s and those hanging onto them b/c they don't want to lose their shirts. Seen a low mileage '09 D8 with the PCV tuner and pipe for $5K OBO in running shape. Someone could take a little gamble that the internals are good, pick it up for $4500, put the $2500 in Dan's kit and you'd have a rock solid, kick butt sled.

Your technical description on the evolution of the small blocks is interesting, particularly in how they "stroked" the 64mm motors. It sounds like they built "taller crank journals," while keeping essentially the same "short rods" of the 64mm motors. Is it feasible to stroke a 64mm motor to 68 or 70mm with aftermarket "long rods," while retaining the stock 600 journals?

Would the 800 monoblock bolt onto the 600HO case? Assuming that you could do the long rod stroke job, it looks like one could bolt-on about $1500 in new parts plus labor and be into a small block 800 carb for much less than a 727 kit.

indydan · May 16, 2012

Mopar21277 said:
The $2500 kit should be a huge hit Dan, as there are people basically giving away D8s and those hanging onto them b/c they don't want to lose their shirts. Seen a low mileage '09 D8 with the PCV tuner and pipe for $5K OBO in running shape. Someone could take a little gamble that the internals are good, pick it up for $4500, put the $2500 in Dan's kit and you'd have a rock solid, kick butt sled.

Your technical description on the evolution of the small blocks is interesting, particularly in how they "stroked" the 64mm motors. It sounds like they built "taller crank journals," while keeping essentially the same "short rods" of the 64mm motors. Is it feasible to stroke a 64mm motor to 68 or 70mm with aftermarket "long rods," while retaining the stock 600 journals?

Would the 800 monoblock bolt onto the 600HO case? Assuming that you could do the long rod stroke job, it looks like one could bolt-on about $1500 in new parts plus labor and be into a small block 800 carb for much less than a 727 kit.

Hi Mopar, The old 600's had a 128mm rod, The 800 has a 132mm rod.

Using an old case is not worth it, It best to just junk up to the newer case, 2010 and is the best for any of the dragons.

Also the lower rod pins are bigger then went from 28mm to 29mm.

The rod pin is built into the center wheels for strength.

Stroking an old crank is not practical.

Dan

GoBigParts · Dec 20, 2012

I think i found a flaw in the small bock 600ho. My cylinder exhaust valve stops are getting smashed or worn in causing valves to scuff pistons. I believe most i have seen are on 7000 mile motors
Any thoughts or dimemsions needed to fix this? Does this happen on the 800 ad well?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

indydan · Dec 20, 2012

Paul_Aris said:
I think i found a flaw in the small bock 600ho. My cylinder exhaust valve stops are getting smashed or worn in causing valves to scuff pistons. I believe most i have seen are on 7000 mile motors
Any thoughts or dimemsions needed to fix this? Does this happen on the 800 ad well?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Hi Paul, you would be correct that has been a problem with alot of Polaris cylinders with the new ( Heavy ) style stainless valves.

There is a easy permanent fix, we go in a bore them past the wear point to an exact depth and then install a steel insert so they don't get pound out like the stock set-up.

Dan

GoBigParts · Dec 20, 2012

Thanks dan. Do you need the valves to check clearance when done?

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* New Release * Long Rod Torque Master 5 Dragon Motor

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