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USFS soliciting comments for Rabbit Ears / Buffalo Pass parking "issue" again

Dogmeat

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USFS soliciting comments for Rabbit Ears / Buffalo Pass parking "issue" again

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/1155...i.com/11558/www/nepa/76931_FSPLT3_1460374.pdf

And again I commented that the size of the parking is perfectly adequate for the number of snowmobilers the ridable acerage there can handle.

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

This is an entitlement issue. If you feel as if you need a football field to park your rig in, go snowmobile in Minnesota.
 

bushy

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Oh neato. RE parking will be much improved. Doesn't sound like there will be a whole lot more parking, just moved off the highway to safer areas. I'd rather see them open the west side to sledding. Skiers barley use 1/10 th the area that's closed off to us.
 

Dogmeat

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Oh neato. RE parking will be much improved. Doesn't sound like there will be a whole lot more parking, just moved off the highway to safer areas. I'd rather see them open the west side to sledding. Skiers barley use 1/10 th the area that's closed off to us.

That makes entirley too much sense though. They have the entire Sarvis creek "Wilderness" area, but that just isn't enough!
 

PJ-Hunter

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Oh neato. RE parking will be much improved. Doesn't sound like there will be a whole lot more parking, just moved off the highway to safer areas. I'd rather see them open the west side to sledding. Skiers barley use 1/10 th the area that's closed off to us.

That makes entirley too much sense though. They have the entire Sarvis creek "Wilderness" area, but that just isn't enough!

Here's why. There are no groomed trails for them to use on the West side. You get a couple hard core twig fairies on the West side but the majority of them use the groomed trails that Steamboat Snowmobile does with his own time, money and groomer. Not to mention what trails are groomed by the RPR club.
 
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milo303

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I'm not following why some sledders would rather not have an expanded parking area at muddy creek... People are coming there whether the parking is big enough or not..

One day someone is going to smoke a line of trucks and kill someone because of the ****ty parking up there and then we will have to deal with that back lash.

I think some more attention needs to be put on the lack of use from the skiers and how to convert that land and expand the parking lot.

And you're right Ralph, the non motor people are using the manicured trails... Why would they break trail when there's a velvet path laid out for them?!

Maybe I'm alone with my view but I think expansion for snowmobilers in CO and showing that we can handle it and bring CO money is the way to go. Whining that we don't have enough and then whining when an expansion is talked about seems counter productive to me.
 

PJ-Hunter

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If peeps would just park sensibly on the Pass it would be enough. Expanding parking will just end up turning RE into VP and then you would have to pay.

2 or 3 folks that park like clowns will ruin it for the 30 or so more rigs following them. Nothing we can really do about it. Add parking you get more idiots.
 
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HOTRODREDNECK

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so you make the parking lot bigger, more people show up and you still get the same 2 or 3 people that screw it up for the 30 people behind them. so to fix that they have to put someone from the forest circus telling people where and how to park (note: still got 2 or 3 people that screw that up) and charging to park. yes the muddy creek parking lot can be a pia but it just adds to the storys of the ears:face-icon-small-sho i say leave it alone! open up some of the twig fairies land and parking lots for us to destroy with our extemely noisy, habitat destoying, fossil fuel burning, evil snowmobiles!!:laser:


p.s. milo, the someone could get killed comment/excuse is pretty worn out with me. how can sh*tty parking cause someone getting killed? bad things happen to good people every day. it happens. i dont want or need a babysitter to tell me to look both ways when i'm in the parking lot
 
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milo303

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p.s. milo, the someone could get killed comment/excuse is pretty worn out with me. how can sh*tty parking cause someone getting killed? bad things happen to good people every day. it happens. i dont want or need a babysitter to tell me to look both ways when i'm in the parking lot



Someone can/will slide off the road and take out a line of trucks that are parked less than 30' from the road... And someone will be walking between the trucks or getting dressed etc and it will kill them. It's not an if, it's a when.... I'm talking when the lot is full and people start parking on the sides of the highway

And ya bad things do happen every day, but the point is WE shouldn't want that backlash and if we can get a safer parking situation, I'm for it. Sledders want more access, more area, more more more but we don't want to pay for it, we don't want current spots to change etc.

The key to change is change... If more money would go into the system from sledders and more people would publicly fight for us, things would change and we would get our areas. The ski industry is doing it, that's why they walk all over us

Fact is the majority of sledders in CO want to sit around and complain but they don't do anything about it. Arguing on a forum won't do anything about it but thank you dogmeat for posting this so people who want, can get involved.
 
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BallsDeep_5280

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I would rather have a nice warm bathroom at MC lot than more parking. But I don't think that option is, or ever will be on the table... so I'll just continue to arrive early enough so that I have ample space to park my gigantic 5' x 10' single trailer.

I've often wondered about those lots that are so close to the road. Seems like a ticking time bomb for someone to spin out and cause some serious damage to machines and people.
 
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milo303

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A better bathroom was in my email to Kent Foster

I agree completely about the bathrooms

Hell, up on berthoud pass they have a super legit heated warming hut with bathrooms and a large open room... Partners in that project included the US Forest Service, Great Outdoors Colorado, Colorado State Parks, the Continental Divide Trail Alliance, the county commissioners from Clear Creek and Grand counties and Friends of Berthoud Pass

Seems like it wouldn't be all that difficult to get something like that going on at muddy creek
 

PJ-Hunter

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Someone can/will slide off the road and take out a line of trucks that are parked less than 30' from the road... And someone will be walking between the trucks or getting dressed etc and it will kill them. It's not an if, it's a when.... I'm talking when the lot is full and people start parking on the sides of the highway

I would rather have a nice warm bathroom at MC lot than more parking. But I don't think that option is, or ever will be on the table... so I'll just continue to arrive early enough so that I have ample space to park my gigantic 5' x 10' single trailer.

I've often wondered about those lots that are so close to the road. Seems like a ticking time bomb for someone to spin out and cause some serious damage to machines and people.

That type of accident happens every year there anyways. Luckily nobody gets hurt. Last year, right at the MC lot exit there were two rollovers. Not a sledder that did it though. It was an impatient twig fairy (both times) who couldn't wait an extra 30 seconds for a truck and trailer to make a safe turn in without getting stuck. Made an illegal pass into oncoming traffic and had to dodge a car, flipping theirs over. I have a pic somewhere of one of them.
 

Dogmeat

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Basically what this is going to result in is the accelerated decline of Rabbit Ears / Buff Pass as a riding area.

It is going to wind up like Vail Pass, in that since the areas surrounding the existing lots are all classified as "Wet lands", the greens are going to sue to stop it, then the "compromise" is that off-trail riding near the lots will be prohibited, leading to more and more off-trail riding being prohibited further north, then south, and on and on and on.

Then when people stop riding there entirley because it's been taken over by snowmoboarding idiots, its going to be a "Oh well lets get 5,000,000 people to go ruin every other less popular place in the State too!".

The simple fact of the matter is, the best possible thing that could happen to _ANY_ riding area in this state, or any other state, is to just leave it the hell alone and leave it the way it is and stop screwing with it to appease a very small group of people leading to the end result of screwing more people. Welcome to politics in this day and age .... And thats exactly what this is. Don't think for a single moment this is about public safety.
 
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MarleneeSteven

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Here are the root level links that show all of the documents for the proposed changes:

Root Folder Link: CLICK HERE
Link to the full document with PDF Maps: CLICK HERE

The thirty-day comment period starts today, Sunday, November 3rd, 2013, and notice should have been posted in the Steamboat Pilot newspaper, according to Ken Foster's email.

As you can see from the map, parking areas will slightly increase, as will the opportunity to maneuver larger trailers. However, the biggest change to this area is closing the parking areas along the highway and the introduction of designated turn lanes at the new and existing approved parking areas. The major push behind this improvement was safety.

The DOT has looked at the stream of accidents over the last few years, and has found that area unacceptable. Instead of giving people another reason to shut down riding areas (ie traffic safety), please make sure to, at a minimum, support the safety changes that would help prevent accidents from occurring in the future.

My opinion, for anyone who cares, is that growing snowmobiling as a sport is critical to keeping it alive. Even on the busiest of days at Rabbit Ears, I know that personally, once I get past the first few meadows, I rarely ever see another person. I want to preserve riding areas that are safe to visit, for my kids, for people that love the sport, and for people that are new to the sport, to encourage the continued success of our sport and passion. The forest belongs to everyone, and I suggest that we, as snowmobilers unite towards expanding access and our passion. This goes hand in hand with expanding the economic impact to proximal areas like Kremmling, Walden, Steamboat, and more.

Look at what the opponents to motorized recreation are doing. We don't ever see them bickering about adding more parking space to a ski area, or to a staging area for backcountry skiing. And, because they can present a unified front, it is often easier for forest planners and managers to say that, yes, this is the popular and correct choice to make for a tentative change.

Snowmobiling at Rabbit Ears will continue to gain in popularity. It has become a recognized destination, across the United States for snowmobilers. Why not provide a safe and viable solution to the increased activity, while supporting our local communities?

I'm not trying to rag on anyone, and this is just my opinion. Please take a moment FIRST READ THE FULL DOCUMENT, and then to submit your comments directly to the forest service at: comments-rm-medicine-bow-routt-hahns-peak-bears-ears@fs.fed.us
 

Dogmeat

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Steven, I appreciate your opinion and thoughts, and that is a great counter point about accidents getting a riding area shut down.

Unfortunatley, I still think this is going to be an inroad in to accelerating more "riding regulations" there.
 
A
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PLEASE COMMENT!

Holy CR#P It just hit me as I was reading the proposal. GATES FOR CONTROLLED ACCESS! They will be locking us (snowmobiles)out at their discretion. Notice how they funnel all the new snowmobile lots for gates!
Today a friend went to vail pass for a test and tune road ride, and he was told if he unloads he will get a ticket. He was told "snowmobile season starts on the 23rd of November" and that "Skiing is OK because it is non motorized" The 23rd just happens to be the day they start charging to ride there! that is discrimination!
PLEASE SEND IN COMMENTS we need to fight back, it is getting ridiculous!:argue:

Evan Miller President MHSC
 

Dogmeat

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Holy CR#P It just hit me as I was reading the proposal. GATES FOR CONTROLLED ACCESS! They will be locking us (snowmobiles)out at their discretion. Notice how they funnel all the new snowmobile lots for gates!
Today a friend went to vail pass for a test and tune road ride, and he was told if he unloads he will get a ticket. He was told "snowmobile season starts on the 23rd of November" and that "Skiing is OK because it is non motorized" The 23rd just happens to be the day they start charging to ride there! that is discrimination!
PLEASE SEND IN COMMENTS we need to fight back, it is getting ridiculous!:argue:

Evan Miller President MHSC

It isn't like they couldn't set up concrete barricades if they wanted to keep people out of the lots .... I'm sure that will come next year :tape2:

But yeah, its BS.
 

tudizzle

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I too think that RE parking expansion would lead to another Vail Pass over regulated fiasco.


Bums me out to see sledders belittling other sledders for having a different opinion. Expressing your opinion is not whining and doing nothing.


Ultimately our input will most likely be pushed aside and they will do what they want anyway.
 

BOHICA

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I'll make this short. Here on the Grand Mesa we had a lot of safety issues with riders parking at the intersection on HWY 65 and Lands End road up until 6 years ago. The FS listened to the concerns and built what is now the Mesa Top parking lot with bath/changing rooms and enough parking for a sh*tload of sledders. I've actually never seen it full. It can be gated off but I've never seen or heard of that happening.
The same concerns where brought up to the FS about the county line XC skiing lot (1/2 mile to the S of MT) but not in time, as two elderly snowshoers were killed last winter when a car lost control on HWY 65 and careened into the parking lot. A new parking lot was constructed off of HWY 65 at the county line this summer.
I know that RE and the GM are two different animals but IMO this FS proposal is truly about safety and providing better recreational opportunities and not about control.
Mark
 
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MarleneeSteven

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Just a friendly reminder to everyone, that while the discussions on here are a good thing and it's a great place to speak your platform, the biggest goal with all of this is to get these comments to the Forest Service. There are a lot of things in the plan, when carefully read, that could have a lot of specific consequences for different user groups and types of riders.

Unfortunately, none of the comments posted here will make it to the Forest Service, so make sure you pass on the word that we need to get our comments in!

Thanks so much!
 
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BROX

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Sounds like a full time job to plow all these new lots/access roads that are off the highway. Currently if it dumps and blows while riding you only have to make it a truck length to get back to the highway. Thats not bad with a shovel if needed but not very feasible with long access roads. And one unprepaired person stuck in their two wheel drive with bald tires and it becomes everyones problem as truck and trailers are backing up on the highway until you can get the access road cleared. How safe is that?
 
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