What is the weight difference between a 600 sml Block and a 440 eng

rab · Mar 7, 2010

I am in the process of doing some mods to a vintage sled and may have access to a polaris 440 MY 2006

Trying to figgure out if I should use the 440 or try to find a 600 sml block

Mabey I can make a 660 out of the 400 is it possible I wonder .....will check the Polaris parts and see if the cranks are the same or mabey the bearings on there anyways

if someone had actual eng weights that would be good also

k

thanks

The Bob · Mar 7, 2010

There is barely any difference in weight between the 440 and 600. The cranks are the same. The rods are shorter on the 440 though. So you need to machine the case or the bottom of the cylinder to match the stroke. You can make a 660 out of the 440.

rab · Mar 7, 2010

to make the 660 what would I need
some 700 cylinders I suspect ?

The Bob · Mar 7, 2010

You need 600 cylinders bored to fit 700 pistons, then re-niked. 700 cylinders won't fit on a 600 cases.

rab · Mar 7, 2010

tblade0123 said:
You need 600 cylinders bored to fit 700 pistons, then re-niked. 700 cylinders won't fit on a 600 cases.

and then I need the crank case bored to accept the 700 cylinders

so the wrist pin must be the same diameter in both the 700 and the 440

and then stock 700 polaris pistons

hows the logevity and performance on the 440 base 660

AndrettiDog · Mar 7, 2010

It's too bad that Carls doesn't do the 600 kit for the 440 anymore. But I have heard that SLP or others might still have those kits.

The Bob · Mar 8, 2010

Its a relitivily easy if you have the cylinders and pistons. If you know of a engine builder that has any clue what he is doing, they can do it. I think its like .30 machined off the top of the case. Very easy for them to figure it out just by puting the 600 piston and cylinders on and measuring.

Its the porting that came with the Carl's and SLP that made alot of difference.

yz400ex · Mar 8, 2010

This is very interesting to me.. How reliable is this motor?? why are the cases or cylinders needed to be machined? What if 600 cylinders were used w/out boring them for 700 pistons? Can that be done.. What about just using the 600 crank instead of changing the rods?

The Bob · Mar 9, 2010

If you do it right and drill oil passages its a great motor. Cases need to be machined because the 440 rods are shorter. If you ran the 600 crank or switched to 600 rods you don't have to machine the cases. Yes you can just run the 600 cylinders without going to 700 size. Then it will be a 600.

yz400ex · Mar 9, 2010

So you dont need to change the crank.. I thought you did.. thats why I was asking why you need to shave the case.. so basically, you just use the 440 bottom end (440 rods, crank and case) and then add 600 cylinders.. bore them to accept 700 pistons and you have a 660..?? What if you just added 600 pistons and cylinders with the 440 bottom end?? what would you have then, a 600?? and do you still need to shave the case?? maybe I am confused..

rab · Mar 10, 2010

if you left the bottom all 440 except for the machining to accept the 600 cylinders ,............you would have less than a 600 cause the stroke is shorter

I suspect it would be a 5 something

I will do the math later if I get a chance and post the answer

how many ponies in a 440 eng with say 15 to 1 heads

poorider · Mar 10, 2010

rab said:
if you left the bottom all 440 except for the machining to accept the 600 cylinders ,............you would have less than a 600 cause the stroke is shorter

I suspect it would be a 5 something

I will do the math later if I get a chance and post the answer

how many ponies in a 440 eng with say 15 to 1 heads

no, the stroke is the same, just the rods are shorter on the 440. You would have a 600 if you used 600 jugs and pistons

rab · Mar 11, 2010

poorider said:
no, the stroke is the same, just the rods are shorter on the 440. You would have a 600 if you used 600 jugs and pistons

I see

so would there be an advantage to making a 600 out of the 440

I would think yes because yo achieve the same thing only without the added weight of the longer rods

so what would you end up with if you use a 440 crank and the 600 rods + 600 pistons and 600 cylinders mabey a 660 ? or would they protrude out of the cylinder to far .....or is the wrist pin to crown height different .....

yz400ex · Mar 11, 2010

I am getting confused now.. :face-icon-small-ton How would you still have a 600 if you only used 600 cylinders and pistons, but still retained the same 440 bottom end? Maybe I just need to have the 440 and 600 cylinders here so I can see the difference in them.. does the case need shaved because of the shorter rods and the piston will hit the case now or?? sorry for all the questions.. I purchased a 440 motor so I am wanting to make this thing scream..:face-icon-small-hap

poorider · Mar 12, 2010

Oh man this is too funny. Not to sound too condescending but if you guys are having trouble understanding this you should probably pay someone else to do your engine work.
1. the 440 and the 600 use the same crank, so the stroke is the same.

2. longer rods do not change your stroke or your displacement, they just make the piston sit farther up in the cylinder, giving more clearance between the skirt and the case. That's why you need to trim the upper case half down to run 600 pistons on the 440 bottom end. (so you will have the proper port timing)

so.....440 crank + 440 pistons and 440 jugs= 440 c.c. displacement.

440 crank+ 600 pistons and 600 jugs= 600 c.c. displacement.

600 crank+600 pistons and 600 jugs= 600 c.c. displacement

440 crank+ 700 pistons and 600 jugs bored out to take 700 pistons=660 c.c. displacement

bore x stroke= displacement no matter what length of rods you use.:face-icon-small-win

meathooker · Mar 12, 2010

op answer

iirc my 685 ho based motor was 8 pounds more than the stock 440. those weights are apples to apples comparisons...

yz400ex · Mar 12, 2010

poorider said:
Oh man this is too funny. Not to sound too condescending but if you guys are having trouble understanding this you should probably pay someone else to do your engine work.
1. the 440 and the 600 use the same crank, so the stroke is the same.

2. longer rods do not change your stroke or your displacement, they just make the piston sit farther up in the cylinder, giving more clearance between the skirt and the case. That's why you need to trim the upper case half down to run 600 pistons on the 440 bottom end. (so you will have the proper port timing)

so.....440 crank + 440 pistons and 440 jugs= 440 c.c. displacement.

440 crank+ 600 pistons and 600 jugs= 600 c.c. displacement.

600 crank+600 pistons and 600 jugs= 600 c.c. displacement

440 crank+ 700 pistons and 600 jugs bored out to take 700 pistons=660 c.c. displacement

bore x stroke= displacement no matter what length of rods you use.:face-icon-small-win

I appreciate the information you are providing.. I am very confident in my motor work and mechanical knowledge, but these swaps are a little new to me so I have some learning to do.. :face-icon-small-ton Like I said before, maybe I am going to have to have the parts needed to fully understand what needs to be done here.. My goal for this motor is to make it into the 660.. Since the cylinders will need bore and renikd anyway I am looking to purchase some damaged cylinders.. Any idea on how many thousands over the 600 cylinder would need to be bored to accept the 700 piston? Need to make sure the cylinder isnt damaged too much to ensure the boring gets rid of all the damage. Also about the heads.. is it recommended to use the 600 head or the 440 head for this build?

yz400ex · Mar 14, 2010

what year(s) 700 pistons are recommended for this?

prox660 · Jan 24, 2013

What are you putting this into..?? The 440 chambered for pump gas isn't exectly a weak motor....

What is the weight difference between a 600 sml Block and a 440 eng

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