Honest thoughts?

1200 miles on mine same plugs did put one belt on. o crap im on the wrong site.

lilkev said:

I've been looking around on many different threads but no one really talks about how it runs, if it has blown up or not, how many plugs fouled etc.. on this thread is just want your honest thought about your sleds and how it runs.

I've put 600 miles on mine this year and its fouled about 6 plugs and blown one belt, but thats it. It hasn't fouled a plug for about 100 miles now after the reflash, only that it still puts a dark color on the snow after giving it gas.. Runs very clean and is quite crisp on the throttle and goes up to 8400-8500 rpms every single ride. Really hoping for a problem free sled but that doesn't seem very likely to happen after reading the posts but i guess thats why im making this to get to know about yours.

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8500 ????

Lots of other posts on here that answer your question, however some you have to read through pages of junk.
Honest thoughts:
At 1st my 850 had the bog..bad. I went through 6 plugs in 100 miles. Bog was worse than my buddies identical sleds. Dealer replaced the speed sensor, PIDD and ECU at different times. New ECU at 100 miles meant starting break in all over luck me. After break in mine still had some bog. Reflashed again and it got better.
Over all its been an outstanding sled. It was painful at 1st with the bog but it absolutely rips now with no bog! Ive tried several tracks, cans and a couple pipes, lots of clutching and I can tell you that bone stock this is an awesome sled. Can's will drop some weight and some will give you the sound you want. Other cans should be sold as race/compitition only because their obnoxious. The single pipes both pulled hard, had 0 issues and pulled more clutch weight and sled lengths than stock. Tracks, you cant go wrong IMO with a stock 2.6". I liked some other tracks as well, but didnt do as well in Every condition as the 2.6". The 280 track was super light, great track speed, and handled great once broken in. With stock clutching and gearing it trenched more than everything else. Once geared down with Tom's TKI kit and clutched compensating for the lighter weight and higher track speed it was really good...except down hill was still faster. Indy Dan's clutch machining kept the belts cooler, more consistent and his adjustable weights were great along with his custom Helix.
In the end, you will be hard pressed to ride a stock 850 Axys to its "full" potential. Burandt, Entz, Pulsifer and others continued to surpass me on bone stock sleds again this year. (Not like I could ever ride as well as them anyways lol).
I just got home and spent about 2-1/2 months total out west, running into many friends with their own 850's. The number that have had problems was extremely low! My buddy Ryan had the oil line come off on his while we were in CO and Polaris went the extra mile rebuilding the motor to be on the safe side....under warranty.
I love the steep and deep, boon docking, hill climbing and technical tree riding. This sled does it all "extremely well"!
If your looking, find a good deal on one, relax knowing you have an outstanding warranty and enjoy the ride.
If your pulling 8500 stock, I would add a little more clutch weight, you want to hit your target RPM for peak performance.

1,332 mountain miles, hundreds in deep powder running wide open. Super happy with the 850 and it climbs and performs better than my staged 800 did.
I’ve never had the bog and haven’t fouled a plug. The handling is much improved with the react front end changes. Great sled!!

lilkev said:

I've been looking around on many different threads but no one really talks about how it runs, if it has blown up or not, how many plugs fouled etc.. on this thread is just want your honest thought about your sleds and how it runs.

I've put 600 miles on mine this year and its fouled about 6 plugs and blown one belt, but thats it. It hasn't fouled a plug for about 100 miles now after the reflash, only that it still puts a dark color on the snow after giving it gas.. Runs very clean and is quite crisp on the throttle and goes up to 8400-8500 rpms every single ride. Really hoping for a problem free sled but that doesn't seem very likely to happen after reading the posts but i guess thats why im making this to get to know about yours.

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Revving that high either a clutch kit or throw some adj weights in, closer to 8100 you are golden.

My sled has had zero problems this year, no fouled plugs and has been located in the exact same spot all winter in my garage. Cats still love sleeping on the seat. No claw marks.

lilkev said:

Thank you, this is exactly what i wanted on this thread! About the rpms, whats the rpm target and which weights do you think i should buy?

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Your welcome. Honest thoughts are easy. Some people get to caught up in brand loyalty, truth is their all advancing quickly and learning from their own (and competitions) mistakes and successes which is great for us consumers.
Back to your question.
The last 800 "stock: target RPM was around 8150. "Some" Dyno's show the 850 "after break in" making peak torque at 8000 and peak HP at 8050 cold pipe. Hot pipe was still 8K TQ, but shifted peak HP to 8100 plus. So that is where I would shoot for. It does seem like a small target but with several manufactures easy adjustable magnetic weights it's pretty easy to dial it in based on the elevation your riding. If your new to this info a good description of how power curves works and effects everything is this youtube dyno run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3hLkQ-Ezks
Keep in mind if you run any engine modifications that manufacture "should" equip you with an updated target RPM based on sound field and dyno testing.

A couple easy to adjust weights that will also have corresponding springs, helix's and tech people to guide you can start here: https://www.indyspecialty.com/product-page/clutch-master-v5-adjustable-weight-set
https://bikemanperformance.com/snow...tar-adjustable-arctic-cat-clutch-weights.html

If your new to changing clutch weights, springs, helix's and or cleaning and maintaining your clutches I have some basic step by step pics with corresponding tools and other Axys mumbo jumbo in one of my old threads here on SW: https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398106&page=5
Also lots of great people on here that are far more knowledgeable than me that can help guide you as well. Good luck!

Prayn4snow said:

Your welcome. Honest thoughts are easy. Some people get to caught up in brand loyalty, truth is their all advancing quickly and learning from their own (and competitions) mistakes and successes which is great for us consumers.
Back to your question.
The last 800 "stock: target RPM was 8150. Some Dyno's show the 850 "after break in" making peak torque at 8000 and peak HP at 8050 cold pipe. Hot pipe was till 8K TQ, but shifted peak HP to 8100. So that is where I would shoot for. It does seem like a small target but with several manufactures easy adjustable magnetic weights it's pretty easy to dial it in based on the elevation your riding. If your new to this info a good description of how power curves works and effects everything is this youtube dyno run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3hLkQ-Ezks
Keep in mind if you run any engine modifications that manufacture "should" equip you with an updated target RPM based on sound field and dyno testing.

A couple easy to adjust weights that will also have corresponding springs, helix's and tech people to guide you can start here: https://www.indyspecialty.com/product-page/clutch-master-v5-adjustable-weight-set
https://bikemanperformance.com/snow...tar-adjustable-arctic-cat-clutch-weights.html

If your new to changing clutch weights, springs, helix's and or cleaning and maintaining your clutches I have some basic step by step pics with corresponding tools and other Axys mumbo jumbo in one of my old threads here on SW: https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398106&page=5
Also lots of great people on here that are far more knowledgeable than me that can help guide you as well. Good luck!

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Thanks for your review. You have tested a lot of products.

Just a few thoughts to add. The 800 stock, ran well with a hot pipe at 8250. At 83-8350 it was like you threw a light switch, it was that much better performance at elevation.

My 850, before the flash, with hot pipe ran best at 8250. I had seat time then.
After the flash, no seat time for me, the boys said 8400 is the ticket. I’m also hearing some of the same from across the US, Canada and Europe. Is it an anomaly? Or are we leaving performance on the table at 81-8300? Why/What is causing it? Scavenging, timing, fueling, pipe sensors, crank case efficiency, fuel atomization, all the above, I don’t know.
My sled hasn’t had any issues. To date leak down hasn’t changed, it’s really tight. It may be from the boys riding it instead of me.

My 850 has been good, no plug problems, no hight rpm hanging, no bogs. Only had one issue so far, was a bad fuel pump, caused det issue. My sled got the new flash and I can't tell much difference. As for rpm my last ride was in 15 c weather spring snow, I had 72g pulling 8400 rpm and 56 mph track speed. Swapped some 74g in and pulled 8200 rpm and the same 56 mph track speed, but felt very lazy on the bottom end. So im going to say 8200-8400 on a hot pipe.

TRS said:

Thanks for your review. You have tested a lot of products.

Just a few thoughts to add. The 800 stock, ran well with a hot pipe at 8250. At 83-8350 it was like you threw a light switch, it was that much better performance at elevation.

My 850, before the flash, with hot pipe ran best at 8250. I had seat time then.
After the flash, no seat time for me, the boys said 8400 is the ticket. I’m also hearing some of the same from across the US, Canada and Europe. Is it an anomaly? Or are we leaving performance on the table at 81-8300? Why/What is causing it? Scavenging, timing, fueling, pipe sensors, crank case efficiency, fuel atomization, all the above, I don’t know.
My sled hasn’t had any issues. To date leak down hasn’t changed, it’s really tight. It may be from the boys riding it instead of me.

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Thanks Tony,
Your exactly right. That's why I mentioned stock "target" rpm. Im curious as to why so many 19's are different?? My personal 850 really likes 8300 in "stock" form after re-flash using 91 non ethanol with 98 (2% consistent leak down). Most single pipes I've ran on other sleds liked a little higher peak, this 850 with a single pulls hardest consistently back down at 8200 lol. At 11,000 4 of us 2 weeks ago ran against each other on the same hill for some base lines. The one that was pulling 8500 would fall several sled lengths in the same back to back short pulls.
Interesting the 2020's pulled the hardest, no bogs, seamlessly rolling through the power band. The transition between exhaust valve openings wasn't as pronounced ether as the 19. The 20 was really the best running stock 850 Ive been on. Yes, there is a slight changes to the pistons, crank locating rings, oil check valves, mapping etc but hopefully "this" version of the 20 mapping passes EPA and is the final product. Don't hold me to this, but I was told that if passed and the new 19 flash didn't work well for you or there was still other runnability problems the 20 flash could be flashed to the 19 under warranty.
Something to ponder I didn't experience any issues with the prototype 19's last year as far as bogs but the mapping did change and those were of course hand built prototypes.
TRS Tony is a great example of me mentioning great people on SW willing to help with far more experience and wisdom than myself. Thanks again for sharing that wisdom

Anyone else doing Datalogging? Here's an example of how aftermarket companies and manufactures test things in the field. In this pic you will see just 3 of the many sleds we were riding. My black 850 (with the Skinz red bumpers), a stock Khaos and another test mule 850 with a racepak data logger. I have lots of seat time watching dyno's run at different shops but "I" like to see things backed up with good old fashion Snow field testing. I'll be honest, there are some magnificent minds running dyno's and fantastic fabricators making aftermarket parts like pipes, cans, heads, porting, big bores, turbo's etc. But, being honest there are some that have no business running a dyno or fabricating. Look for shops that can show you consistent results, with long hard realistic time at race tracks, in the trees and hills for the product your interested in.
Example: If your a flatlander and want to know what clutching works for your trip to Tog in WY, ask someone like TRS that has more seat time at that altitude and snow conditions than your granny has baking cookies.
Which is a frequent term used by Chris while he's waiting for me to get unstuck following him up in steep nasty trees that he likes to leave me for dead in lol. "Say hi to my grandma baking cookies" while I'm huffinpuffin.
2nd pic is testing a single pipe and can. Testing sounds like fun until you've missed a fresh snowfall on a blue bird day listening to your buddys tearing it up stuck all day and you've swapped stock pipe, can, clutching a dozen times in the same morning with aftermarket pipe and different clutching to help establish baselines with back to back runs on the same boring hill before the sun and temps change the snow conditions lol. Guess there is worse things I could be doing lol.

jim said:

My sled has had zero problems this year, no fouled plugs and has been located in the exact same spot all winter in my garage. Cats still love sleeping on the seat. No claw marks.

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So why no sledding this year?

So why no sledding this year?

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My kids are 8 and 9 and love to ski...so that is what we do all winter. Plenty of days down the road to sled more when they are teenagers and I'm "boring" and "lame".

TRS said:

are we leaving performance on the table at 81-8300?

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TRS makes some awesome non adjustable weights and is something I failed to mention in my previous post as I was just talking adjustables. His weights and profile have a solid performance reputation! If you live or ride in an area that the elevation doesn't change much or it's easy enough to carry a second set it hard to beat a custom profile that is made and tested in the mountains. Check out his weights and kits here: https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442651

So many variables in clutching with different springs, shims, helix's etc Its nice to go to a guy that lives it and can walk you through exactly what you need.

Prayn4snow said:

TRS makes some awesome non adjustable weights and is something I failed to mention in my previous post as I was just talking adjustables. His weights and profile have a solid performance reputation! If you live or ride in an area that the elevation doesn't change much or it's easy enough to carry a second set it hard to beat a custom profile that is made and tested in the mountains. Check out his weights and kits here: https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442651

So many variables in clutching with different springs, shims, helix's etc Its nice to go to a guy that lives it and can walk you through exactly what you need.

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I run 2 different primary springs with 20# different spring rates, this allows me to easily jump RPM for different elevations. Covers about 6K of riding pretty reasonably wtihout swapping weights. Just a note for those that don't want to do adjustable weights.

Wheel House Motorsports said:

I run 2 different primary springs with 20# different spring rates, this allows me to easily jump RPM for different elevations. Covers about 6K of riding pretty reasonably wtihout swapping weights. Just a note for those that don't want to do adjustable weights.

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Yes your right Wheel House, great info!
I start 690ft in Upper MI then go out west riding at 6, 8, 10 and near 12,000 so I need a little more options than some. If I still lived out west I would be running what you mentioned

So, everyone that had a 2019 must have had enough seat time to have some "Honest thoughts". Anyone adding some mods to their sled this year or had warranty work? I'm interested to hear how 19 went on the 19's.

Prayn4snow said:

So, everyone that had a 2019 must have had enough seat time to have some "Honest thoughts". Anyone adding some mods to their sled this year or had warranty work? I'm interested to hear how 19 went on the 19's.

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I rode the Axys 800 for 3 years and had a pipe, clutching and gearing. Loved the sled. I bought an 850 at the end of the year and was happy with it but needs a fair amount of work. As with the 800, gearing and clutching are off by a lot.

The belt drive sleds are 22/43 = 1.95 gear ratio, giving a 1:1 ration of 82.9 mph. WAY to high for a mountain sled. Why gear the sled that high when you can only achieve half of that track speed in the mountains. Kurts gear down is a great first step, but that is still only 29/69 = 2.38. But that is still good for 68.10 mph track speed.

The straight 42 is no good. its not enough angle off the bottom and too much angle on the top. The stock belt is so hard that you need a stiff spring to stop slipping. I have been testing some new options with great results.

The motor makes great power, just doest get to the track very well.

This also depends on your weight, riding elevation and track length.

Im currently building a 163 tunnel belt drive 174. ill be running a 25/69 = 2.76 gear ratio with 3" drivers. which is 59.1 mph 1:1 ratio. Cant wait to test this in November.