Aftermarket "Alpha Skid"

jackbombay · Mar 29, 2018

There has been an Alpha cat floating around the hills here for the last few weeks, I'm told the goal is to get ski doo owners on it in the hopes of converting them to Cat. I know a guy (currently on a 2018 cat) that has ridden the alpha cat, he rides "better than the average bear" for sure, he said it didn't behave like T-motion, it didn't want to wash on side hills and the back didn't want to wash when cornering hard. He said "I'd buy one today if they'd sell it to me." He loves his 18, but said the Alpha was a far better sled.

rulonjj · Mar 30, 2018

If you look at tmotion it has a swinging action to it. It doesn’t just pivot. The whole skid swings around under the sled. That and the torsion spring setup and you have a ton of unpredictability The alpha’s skid doesn’t pivot or swing. Just the track pivots So when i look at the differences(as small as they may appear) I can see why the alpha would be much more predictable.

jackbombay · Mar 30, 2018

rulonjj said:
If you look at tmotion it has a swinging action to it. It doesn’t just pivot. The whole skid swings around under the sled. That and the torsion spring setup and you have a ton of unpredictability The alpha’s skid doesn’t pivot or swing. Just the track pivots So when i look at the differences(as small as they may appear) I can see why the alpha would be much more predictable.

My dislike of the tmotion is not its predictability, or lack of predictability, it is that it washes out more easily when cornering hard compared to having the tmotion locked out. Once you have the sled on one ski the t motion has pivoted/swung as far as it's going to, so I don't think it contributes to any unpredictability , but because the track is no longer square to the chassis of the sled it won't hold an edge as well. It really seems that this will be the case for the Alpha cat as the track will not be square to the chassis when the sled is on one ski, but I'm told this is not the case so I certainly look forward to throwing a leg over one next year!

rulonjj · Mar 30, 2018

Unpredictability/washout are the same thing when it comes to Tmotion. The unpredictability comes from the rear end “washing” and sliding around. Another Part of it’s unpredictability is the torsion springs. Every time you lean, one spring loads up while the other unloads. Those springs are fighting you when sidehilling.

If you think about it, the alpha still has an edge on the very back when it goes around the wheels.

Cat-man-Doo · Mar 30, 2018

Perhaps I'm missing something here as i have not looked into the alpha all that close but my first thought when I saw the Alpha was that it must have an axle for the rear wheels and if you jump and land in the tail and not square, that axle has a pretty big load to bear without bending. A twin rail skid can bend under these conditions. I hope the axle can cope.

Norona · Mar 30, 2018

snopro11 said:
Imho It will work great in mountain riding conditions. I’ve been on doo
for 10 years now & I don’t really think the g4 is enough of an improvement to stay on doo with that said I rode a buddies 154sp and it felt longer than my xm and heavier on th hands, in that couple hrs I wasn’t really impressed. The 850 is buttery smooth but not much faster than 800etec. I like the idea of the sled handling more like a standup jetski. Would also love doo to offer a better shock package on summits. Was planning on ordering a g4 but I’m leaning towards the alpha!

Yours is a common initial response to the G4, but ride one for a week and you won't want to get back on that xm ever again!

Norona · Mar 30, 2018

turboless terry said:
Everyone has their likes and dislikes but I have never heard anyone say they feel longer than an xm. Everyone I know thinks they ride shorter. My one buddy think his 154 rides like his 146 xm. You had to ride a poorly running or poorly setup gen 4.

Yes true, anyone who rides a 154 in xm, would not even notice going to 165 in g4 if the sticker was not there, except the positives of where it will go and if you ride a 163 the same is true to 175...they ride feel much shorter

turboless terry · Mar 30, 2018

Cat-man-Doo said:
Perhaps I'm missing something here as i have not looked into the alpha all that close but my first thought when I saw the Alpha was that it must have an axle for the rear wheels and if you jump and land in the tail and not square, that axle has a pretty big load to bear without bending. A twin rail skid can bend under these conditions. I hope the axle can cope.

My bet is it is a stouter than the axle on a 2 rail skid if you compare. I'm sure somebody can bend one but most won't.

boondocker99 · Apr 6, 2018

Clutched Films said:
You know the cool thing about the new Alpha rear suspension is that you can buy the same snowmobile with the best factory rear skid on the market or try the Alpha-motion skid. Unlike skidoo who gives you no option until you get into the 137" tracks. Why doesn't ski-doo offer their C-motion rear scissor arm in the summit line up haha? Looking forward to March test out the Alpha & Harcore 19 cats. I am sure it will act 100% like t-motion & have already cautioned all my friends not to get sucked into Cats new hill climb sled for Rob & Dave. Can't wait to ride it & find out for sure if it's Cats new HCR or something new for the backcountry riders that will surprise us all?

There really is no way to lock out the Alpha and it costs about $50 for a t-motion lockout...

boondocker99 · Apr 6, 2018

rulonjj said:
If you look at tmotion it has a swinging action to it. It doesn’t just pivot. The whole skid swings around under the sled. That and the torsion spring setup and you have a ton of unpredictability The alpha’s skid doesn’t pivot or swing. Just the track pivots So when i look at the differences(as small as they may appear) I can see why the alpha would be much more predictable.

LOL

JJ_0909 · Apr 6, 2018

ek5446 said:
Since Cat holds the patent on the "single" rail skid. I really don't see the others trying to copy it. But since there are multiple copy's of the Doo's tMotion out there. Seems like Doo doesn't have a patent on the idea.

My guess would be they are working on a more aggressive style of tMotion. To increase the tilt motion to match the new Alpha.

I like the tMotion. It is a bit squirly, sure. I'm going aftermarket a-arms next season. Should really help with the unpredictability of the sled on edge.

The arms won't do a lot. Give the SLP Mohawks a try. They will!

live2beel · Apr 6, 2018

JJ_0909 said:
The arms won't do a lot. Give the SLP Mohawks a try. They will!

How hard are the Mohawks to turn? Had a set on a Cat and they wore me out. Ever try Grippers?

Clutched Films · Apr 15, 2018

Alpha1

boondocker99 said:
There really is no way to lock out the Alpha and it costs about $50 for a t-motion lockout...

Thats my point you don't need to lock it out buy the ascender that rear skid is bad a**. Back to the Alpha1 I rode it yesterday every1's rearskid had 40-60 lbs of snow packed in the rear skid. That Alpha1 had almost no snow in it all day maybe 5 lbs if that. I didn't get a lot of time on it snow was so screwed up 1' of wet heavy concrete but the Alpha1 felt a lot like the 18 Ascender cat just more power. And the Alpha1 does run better then the 18 cats & 850's I would be pretty embarrassed if I was skidoo. That new 19 Alpha Kitty 800 runs hard the demo sled had 277 miles on it. Funny thing was that the Alpha1 wasn't running really crisp it was pulling 8200rpm just grunted its way up the hill. Seemed like a very efficient power delivery between clutching & chassis and some good potential left in the motor. I am loving some1 finally pushing skidoo in R&D and power. I hope skidoo comes out swing in 2020 they need 183.7 HP & clutching help

ray2:

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Aftermarket "Alpha Skid"

jackbombay

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