Polaris P85 Drive Clutch

Sixat38 · Jan 21, 2009

Ron said:
Float is to the inside after getting your off-set correct you remove shims behind the driven to add float. Here is some more detail on what I did:

Are you sure about setting your float to the inside? If you go back one page and look at Step 4 at the top of column two in the instruction sheet posted. It say to remove shims/washers from the bolt to set float. That would be the outside. Right?

Not trying to cause problems just get it straight.

Sixat38 · Jan 21, 2009

I guess that would be two pages back at this point. Page 6 of the thread.

shortstop20 · Jan 22, 2009

Offset is setup by the jackshaft washers behing the secondary. Float is set with the washers between the bolt/main washer and the shaft.

Sixat38 · Jan 23, 2009

Sorry to clog up the P-85 primary thread with this but... well it's a good thread to keep toward the top too.

This is how I set mine. Shimmed the back with washers to get offset on the secondary (bolt not installed). I ened up with 6 washers on the jackshaft, on the back side. Then installed the bolt and it bottomed out on the outside face of the clutch.

I ended up removing all large washers from the bolt except the last large retaining washer that holds all the other washers in place on the bolt.

Then I had to add about 6-7 small washers to the bolt. The washers that fit inside the bore of the secondary. This was to get the bolt shimmed out far enough to get some float to the out side.

I'm pretty sure it's set up correct. There was a thread on here a while back with pics showing how much the secondary had to be shimmed off the jack shaft bearing. It did mention you cold have up to a 1/2 dozen washers on the jack shaft at the back side of the secondary. On my sled I'm shimmed out 1/2 to 3/4 inch. Seems like a lot of shims/washers but it is what it is I guess.

What has not been mentioned in all my reading (unless I missed it) is the piece about adding small washers to the bolt to get your float set correct. Maybe I'm all screwed up on this.

'08 RMK by the way.

Ron · Jan 23, 2009

Sixat38 said:
Sorry to clog up the P-85 primary thread with this but... well it's a good thread to keep toward the top too.

This is how I set mine. Shimmed the back with washers to get offset on the secondary (bolt not installed). I ened up with 6 washers on the jackshaft, on the back side. Then installed the bolt and it bottomed out on the outside face of the clutch.

I ended up removing all large washers from the bolt except the last large retaining washer that holds all the other washers in place on the bolt.

Then I had to add about 6-7 small washers to the bolt. The washers that fit inside the bore of the secondary. This was to get the bolt shimmed out far enough to get some float to the out side.

I'm pretty sure it's set up correct. There was a thread on here a while back with pics showing how much the secondary had to be shimmed off the jack shaft bearing. It did mention you cold have up to a 1/2 dozen washers on the jack shaft at the back side of the secondary. On my sled I'm shimmed out 1/2 to 3/4 inch. Seems like a lot of shims/washers but it is what it is I guess.

What has not been mentioned in all my reading (unless I missed it) is the piece about adding small washers to the bolt to get your float set correct. Maybe I'm all screwed up on this.

'08 RMK by the way.

The instructions from Polaris are pretty hazy so I talked to a tech at Carl's to see how he does it.
1. The easy way is to set the offset to the bolt and washer stack-by installing the tool and pulling the clutch against the bolt with washers and spacer intact, bolt tight in jackshaft then add or remove washers as needed to get the proper setting.
2. Next add or remove washers behind the clutch (jackshaft shims) to get float of .030 to .050" with the clutch bolt tight.
The reason this works better is that it's quicker and easier. If you set with the shims behind the clutch then you have to get the bolt stack of washers exact and then remove shims behind the clutch. You added another step and may compromise accuracy.
The instructions in the Polaris service manual leave some holes & seem to contradict the direction of the offset. Polaris still descrives the method used when we had a tool with 5/8 offset. Shim inside stack to 5/8 or .625 and then floated about .050 to get .675 to the outside. Polaris offset is 17mm or .67" Now you set to .670 (17mm) and float the other direction to get to .640 to .620"-about the same setting. I have no belt dust and no belt heat on mine. See this post for Service Manual page..
http://snowest.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1019124&postcount=113

Sixat38 · Jan 23, 2009

Once again, thanks a bunch Ron. I stand corrected.

Ron · Jan 23, 2009

Float

I just double checked my info with Carl's and I have stated it correctly in previous posts, but to summarize:
The Polaris fixed sheave alignment tool establishes the outermost limit of offset at 17mm or .67"... from there the clutch should float toward the body by .030", no more than .050".
By my interpretation of the Polaris service manual (copy provided earlier), Polaris has stated it incorrectly. The Polaris manual refers to the way we used to set offset working from the moveable inside sheave and then removing a shim from the retaining bolt to let it float away from the body. With the new tool you start at the outside fixed sheave. Same process just a different starting point.
This is only the third error I've seen, not bad for a large technical manual. One error is listing the length of the driven clutch torx bolts at 1.25" vs 1/2" actual. Already forgot the other error, oh ya it listed the wrong gearing on the 09 Dragon.:face-icon-small-win

Edit-With some reported problems by others I'd like to mention again how good my sled runs. I thought my piped 2008 was fast, but there is no comparison to my ported 2009. Throttle response is instant and the sled doesn't just pull hard now...it lunges forward, then pulls hard. The track hooks up like it's got studs. Right now-engine, clutches & track are in perfect harmony. Still waiting for some deep snow for a final test to see if it will still pull the 65's in it now.

craigvansickle · Sep 23, 2009

Ron said:
Remove the larger spacer and then add shim's to get you to the correct side clearance.

The large spacer is .130" and the shim washer is .020" for a total of .150". On mine I removed both and added back a total of .104 (.050, .020, .032) or a reduction of .046" that left me .015" with a new belt. The large spacer is a fairly recent addition to the Polaris clutch, it was added in recent years.
Caution-this is likely a designed clearance by Polaris not an accident so there may be some reason for the unusually large belt side clearance??? I have no adverse effects on changing mine other than engagement was harsh until I logged about 100 miles. I believe that engine R's increased but did not run my sled before and after to get a comparison.

GREAT POST. Last year I used the info here to set my clutch up. Although this large spacer had not been mentioned yet in the thread. I ended up pulling the 020 spacer out and calling it good. There is still a little too much clearance but its seems to work well. Thanks for all the great info.

Supplicate · Sep 29, 2009

Incase anyone is intersted since I didn't see these in the thread yet:

Was digging through my photobucket and stumbled across em, those part numbers might not be current as these charts are out of the 05 Deep Snow Manual......

tree-magnet · Sep 30, 2009

Ron said:
I just double checked my info with Carl's and I have stated it correctly in previous posts, but to summarize:
The Polaris fixed sheave alignment tool establishes the outermost limit of offset at 17mm or .67"... from there the clutch should float toward the body by .030", no more than .050".
By my interpretation of the Polaris service manual (copy provided earlier), Polaris has stated it incorrectly. The Polaris manual refers to the way we used to set offset working from the moveable inside sheave and then removing a shim from the retaining bolt to let it float away from the body. With the new tool you start at the outside fixed sheave. Same process just a different starting point.
This is only the third error I've seen, not bad for a large technical manual. One error is listing the length of the driven clutch torx bolts at 1.25" vs 1/2" actual. Already forgot the other error, oh ya it listed the wrong gearing on the 09 Dragon.:face-icon-small-win

Edit-With some reported problems by others I'd like to mention again how good my sled runs. I thought my piped 2008 was fast, but there is no comparison to my ported 2009. Throttle response is instant and the sled doesn't just pull hard now...it lunges forward, then pulls hard. The track hooks up like it's got studs. Right now-engine, clutches & track are in perfect harmony. Still waiting for some deep snow for a final test to see if it will still pull the 65's in it now.

So did carls do your porting for you? What pipe are you using..
Thanks

Ron · Oct 1, 2009

svpawnco said:
So did carls do your porting for you? What pipe are you using..
Thanks

Yes Carl's porting, milled head (going by by with engine update) and SLP single.

Ron · Oct 1, 2009

Just a quick update on clutching experience last year. The O rings behind the weight pin (bolt)worked super all year. They keep the bolt from flopping but still let it turn.
With the new torque settings at 80#'s, the clutch is nearly impossible to remove without an impact wrench. Hate it but had to start using one. I hold the clutch with my left hand to dampen vibration to the engine internals and then use the impact to remove the clutch. I noticed that the service department at Carl's uses an impact also!
Saw some wear to clutch faces on new clutches. Must be the result of the rubber compound in the 1115 belt & maybe hot clutches. This seems mostly at the engagement (lower in the sheaves). It's probably a good idea to turn off your sled rather than let it idle for any length of time.

MOWER800 · Oct 2, 2009

useful tool

this is a tool we madeout of a 5/16th bolt
cut the head off and cut a slice down the end
and insurt emory cloth and it fits in your drill or diegrinder
to clean the inside taper of the clutch

donbrown · Oct 3, 2009

Here is some great clutch maintenance

1200psi

Indydan

Joe's Motor Machine Shop
1101 N 27th St
Boise, ID 83702
Ph-208-343-1949

volcano buster · Oct 4, 2009

Ron, (or others)

Couple questions.

1. Post from 10-5-08, 2nd photo shows the installation of a clutch weight shim installed. My interpretation is that the shim is not on the thrust side, unless there is a shim on both sides of the weight which I can't see very well. My assumption is, that the shim should be installed on the leading edge of the primary that pushes on the weight.

2. Also from the 10-5-08 post, photo #1, is the stack of weights, with their actual weights written on the side. Are the weights supposed to be weighed as a gross weight, or on a pivot to represent the "slung" weight. This would take out the unslung weight associated with the cylinder of metal around the pivot bushing.

3. As the difference in clutch cover bolt weights, why wouldn't you simply grind the bolts until they matched (making them slightly shorter)? Or are you happier balancing similarly weighted bolts 180° from each other on the cover?

4. Please include me to the word version of this. jsmjbenson@gmail.com

Ron · Oct 4, 2009

Very good observations, thanks!

volcano buster said:
Ron, (or others)

Couple questions.

1. Post from 10-5-08, 2nd photo shows the installation of a clutch weight shim installed. My interpretation is that the shim is not on the thrust side, unless there is a shim on both sides of the weight which I can't see very well. My assumption is, that the shim should be installed on the leading edge of the primary that pushes on the weight.
You are correct, the pointer is not on the thrust side of the weight. Some clutches need a shim on the non-thrust side so that the weight lines up on the center of the roller. Then it's a good idea to add the shim to both sides. High mile clutches usually need the shim on both sides.

2. Also from the 10-5-08 post, photo #1, is the stack of weights, with their actual weights written on the side. Are the weights supposed to be weighed as a gross weight, or on a pivot to represent the "slung" weight. This would take out the unslung weight associated with the cylinder of metal around the pivot bushing.
The norm is to weigh each weight as a gross & since the shape and material is the same the slung weight should be approximately the same. The ideal would be to weigh them on a pivot so that the force exerted by each weight is the same. Polaris spec's + or - 1 gram so if you were unlucky enough to have them that far out then balancing on a pivot would really make sense. Another alternative is to sort through some weights and get 3 about the same. I had a set of EPI Belly Busters that were way off last year and made a jig to balance as you describe. This might be easy for a machinist but isn't going to be easy for most of us.

3. As the difference in clutch cover bolt weights, why wouldn't you simply grind the bolts until they matched (making them slightly shorter)? Or are you happier balancing similarly weighted bolts 180° from each other on the cover?
I ground a little off the head to get each bolt the same weight. That's probably splitting hairs since they are all so close. This should be done before the clutch is balanced or else I would mark them to reinstall in the same position and not balance them.

4. Please include me to the word version of this. jsmjbenson@gmail.com

scalded dog · Oct 19, 2009

thanks for info Ron
I also need to get my mind wrapped around clutch maint.
also I would appreciate if you could send me a copy of this info to chambers65@gmail.com
thanks again jeff

corpeleven · Oct 29, 2009

I would love a copy too Ron. Thanks! corpeleven@yahoo.com

coacholy · Nov 22, 2009

Ron, I really like a copy also. Send to mwolstad@gmail.com

Scoutin Wyo · Nov 22, 2009

AWESOME post Ron! Please send me a copy to b.rognon(at)hotmail.com

Thanks!!!!

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