Itermittent Spark

007Sevens · Mar 8, 2014

I need a little help, My pro loses spark. Here's the story.

Day one:
Unloaded the sled and ripped up the hills with no problem for about 3hrs. Then all of a sudden while climbing a hill it loses power and stops moving, noticed the gauge cluster cuts out and the engine flutters but stayed running while. It eventually dies but fires right up and after a bit it clears up and it runs fine for about 10mins. It cut out a few more times that day but always stayed running.

Day two:
Ran as it should for about 19kms on the trail at about an average speed of 60MPH. At the 19km mark we switched from trail riding to un-groomed trail with deactivation ditches which meant a slower speed. Sled cut out and stopped running as if it were shut off. It had no spark and never did recover. Pulled it off the hill and place it in a heated shop to thaw out snow under the hood. After about an hour of thaw time it fired up. Thinking it was the Throttle safety switch, I had it turned off in the ecm and rode the next day.

Day Three:
Made it 1Km down the trail when it cut out and quit running. Didn't wait to long pulled it down and handed it to mechanic in town and rented his sled. The mechanic walked into the trailer and it fired first pull. He changed out the voltage regulator thinking that was the problem. (He is not a Polaris mechanic) just a general mechanic.

Day Four:
Fired it up, backed out of the trailer but it hesitated a couple times. Hesitated up the trail a bit. It for the most part stayed running but did act differently then before with the other voltage regulator. It did not quit until after a long pull up the hill and as if you shut the engine off just as I turned around. Waited about five minutes it fired up and I started to drive down and it quit again. At the bottom of the hill I waited about ten minutes and it fired again. Feeling it was going to act up again I went down to the trailer. It never missed a beat and ran fine all the way down.

Day Five:
Back home. Unloaded out of trailer and placed in heated garage over night.

Day Six.
Went out to look at it and test it. Stator tests OK. Tried to start it, no spark. Pulled spark plug and no spark, then spark. Put spark plug back in, no fire. give it a little throttle and it fired up. low idle. Reset TPS through computer and fired and idled fine.

Notes:
2013 Pro Rmk
The sled has no bogs when running, when it acts up it is both cylinders. It acts just like you shut it off.

Any ideas, would be greatly appreciated.

gunnerthesnowman · Mar 8, 2014

007Sevens said:
I need a little help, My pro loses spark. Here's the story.

Day one:
Unloaded the sled and ripped up the hills with no problem for about 3hrs. Then all of a sudden while climbing a hill it loses power and stops moving, noticed the gauge cluster cuts out and the engine flutters but stayed running while. It eventually dies but fires right up and after a bit it clears up and it runs fine for about 10mins. It cut out a few more times that day but always stayed running.

Day two:
Ran as it should for about 19kms on the trail at about an average speed of 60MPH. At the 19km mark we switched from trail riding to un-groomed trail with deactivation ditches which meant a slower speed. Sled cut out and stopped running as if it were shut off. It had no spark and never did recover. Pulled it off the hill and place it in a heated shop to thaw out snow under the hood. After about an hour of thaw time it fired up. Thinking it was the Throttle safety switch, I had it turned off in the ecm and rode the next day.

Day Three:
Made it 1Km down the trail when it cut out and quit running. Didn't wait to long pulled it down and handed it to mechanic in town and rented his sled. The mechanic walked into the trailer and it fired first pull. He changed out the voltage regulator thinking that was the problem. (He is not a Polaris mechanic) just a general mechanic.

Day Four:
Fired it up, backed out of the trailer but it hesitated a couple times. Hesitated up the trail a bit. It for the most part stayed running but did act differently then before with the other voltage regulator. It did not quit until after a long pull up the hill and as if you shut the engine off just as I turned around. Waited about five minutes it fired up and I started to drive down and it quit again. At the bottom of the hill I waited about ten minutes and it fired again. Feeling it was going to act up again I went down to the trailer. It never missed a beat and ran fine all the way down.

Day Five:
Back home. Unloaded out of trailer and placed in heated garage over night.

Day Six.
Went out to look at it and test it. Stator tests OK. Tried to start it, no spark. Pulled spark plug and no spark, then spark. Put spark plug back in, no fire. give it a little throttle and it fired up. low idle. Reset TPS through computer and fired and idled fine.

Notes:
2013 Pro Rmk
The sled has no bogs when running, when it acts up it is both cylinders. It acts just like you shut it off.

Any ideas, would be greatly appreciated.

#1 ) -Have you tested your fuel pump capacitor , its on top of your DC 3 phase regulator , connect 12v to it + to red wire / - to brown wire , connect for 8-10 seconds , then disconnect 12V and test the capacitor for voltage , you should have 12+v and drop very slowly, if it is bad it draws power away from the rest of the systems, if this test good, then try #2
#2 )--Connect a 12 volt battery to the ECU power up plug ( the ECU power plug is in the wire connections on top of the clutch cover ) make shore you have the + and - connections right . this is were your dealer connects 12V to the ECU so they can connect there digital wrench to the ECU and trouble shoot.
Connecting 12v to this connection supply's 12v DC to the ECU and bypasses the ECU AC/DC rectifier , I think this is your problem , try another ECU

gunnerthesnowman · Mar 8, 2014

O ya , unhook your hand, thumb warmer ( they work of AC power , you can test them to see if one of them went to ground ) disconnect your kill switch and tether if you have one , just good to get these out of the picture , but it sounds like the ECU AC built in power supply?

007Sevens · Mar 8, 2014

gunnerthesnowman said:
O ya , unhook your hand, thumb warmer ( they work of AC power , you can test them to see if one of them went to ground ) disconnect your kill switch and tether if you have one , just good to get these out of the picture , but it sounds like the ECU AC built in power supply?

gunnerthesnowman said:
#1 ) -Have you tested your fuel pump capacitor , its on top of your DC 3 phase regulator , connect 12v to it + to red wire / - to brown wire , connect for 8-10 seconds , then disconnect 12V and test the capacitor for voltage , you should have 12+v and drop very slowly, if it is bad it draws power away from the rest of the systems, if this test good, then try #2
#2 )--Connect a 12 volt battery to the ECU power up plug ( the ECU power plug is in the wire connections on top of the clutch cover ) make shore you have the + and - connections right . this is were your dealer connects 12V to the ECU so they can connect there digital wrench to the ECU and trouble shoot.
Connecting 12v to this connection supply's 12v DC to the ECU and bypasses the ECU AC/DC rectifier , I think this is your problem , try another ECU

On the 2013 it does not have the fuel pump capacitor on the top of the regulator. Is it the bag that looks like shrink wrap to the side in the wire harness on the 2013. In the parts catalog its called a capacitor but does not say for what.

I have hooked the ecu to power. Its a Vipec due to the HM kit on it. It checks out fine with no codes.

On the hill we did unhooked the tether and kill switch as well as had the hood off so key wasnt a factor. No spark. I will check my handle bar warmers. They were working at the time though.

SlingingMercury · Mar 8, 2014

Please update if you find the problem. my hm with vipec just had the same problem today, intermittent spark. I think it is TPS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

007Sevens · Mar 8, 2014

I have confirmed that what I thought was the fuel pump capacitor was. It checks out fine. Still trying to figure out the handle bar warmers.

007Sevens · Mar 8, 2014

SlingingMercury said:
Please update if you find the problem. my hm with vipec just had the same problem today, intermittent spark. I think it is TPS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Has yours shut down completely and will not start again? wait awhile and it fires again.

SlingingMercury · Mar 8, 2014

It hasn't died but after shutting down it won't start and pulling plug showed intermittent spark. It will also start and idle low and gauge cluster will act wonky and go blank, If you try to use throttle it will die. It will then randomly start and work fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gunnerthesnowman · Mar 8, 2014

007Sevens said:
On the 2013 it does not have the fuel pump capacitor on the top of the regulator. Is it the bag that looks like shrink wrap to the side in the wire harness on the 2013. In the parts catalog its called a capacitor but does not say for what.

I have hooked the ecu to power. Its a Vipec due to the HM kit on it. It checks out fine with no codes.
On the hill we did unhooked the tether and kill switch as well as had the hood off so key wasnt a factor. No spark. I will check my handle bar warmers. They were working at the time though.

Did you pull it over and check for spark with the power hooked up to the ECU???

007Sevens · Mar 8, 2014

gunnerthesnowman said:
Did you pull it over and check for spark with the power hooked up to the ECU???

Yes I did, it fires up like it should. It also fires up at this moment without power hooked to the ecu. I have never been able to test it when it would not start. The intermittent spark has always came back after it sat for awhile.

gunnerthesnowman · Mar 8, 2014

SlingingMercury said:
Please update if you find the problem. my hm with vipec just had the same problem today, intermittent spark. I think it is TPS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

007Sevens said:
Yes I did, it fires up like it should. It also fires up at this moment without power hooked to the ecu. I have never been able to test it when it would not start. The intermittent spark has always came back after it sat for awhile.

How old are your ECU,s , how many miles -hours on unit

gunnerthesnowman · Mar 8, 2014

Have you had your sled AC circuit tested , you would have to put your stock ECU back in and take it to your dealer and have them but it on the digital scan tool , maybe your AC-DC 14.3 regulator

gunnerthesnowman · Mar 9, 2014

Any updates

007Sevens · Mar 9, 2014

gunnerthesnowman said:
Any updates

Nothing yet, I don't have the old ECU. it will have to wait till Monday when I can hook it to the laptop and get HM on the phone to diagnose. Chances are it is the ECU. It was running fine prior to an update and my miss hap with connection to power up.

007Sevens · Mar 9, 2014

007Sevens said:
Nothing yet, I don't have the old ECU. it will have to wait till Monday when I can hook it to the laptop and get HM on the phone to diagnose. Chances are it is the ECU. It was running fine prior to an update and my miss hap with connection to power up.

Went out today and tested the coils, handle bar warmers, thumb warmers, exhaust value solenoid, tether switch, kill switch, and had a good look for anything out of the ordinary. Everything looks and tests good a new. Right now the sled fires up on the first pull and runs as it should. I might have to put it back together and ride it to see if I can recreate the problem.

I tested the TPS with a voltmeter through the ECU wiring plug. It was set at .72 volts with throttle idle screw backed out all the way. Set it at .70 volts just cause I was there. Reset idle screw to .94 volts. Don't think this would cause any problems.

Wish I knew what is the problem. Sure be nice if somebody with real world experience would chime in. Such as a Vipec dealer that could shed some light on testing procedures on the ecu.

gunnerthesnowman · Mar 9, 2014

007Sevens said:
Went out today and tested the coils, handle bar warmers, thumb warmers, exhaust value solenoid, tether switch, kill switch, and had a good look for anything out of the ordinary. Everything looks and tests good a new. Right now the sled fires up on the first pull and runs as it should. I might have to put it back together and ride it to see if I can recreate the problem.

I tested the TPS with a voltmeter through the ECU wiring plug. It was set at .72 volts with throttle idle screw backed out all the way. Set it at .70 volts just cause I was there. Reset idle screw to .94 volts. Don't think this would cause any problems.

Wish I knew what is the problem. Sure be nice if somebody with real world experience would chime in. Such as a Vipec dealer that could shed some light on testing procedures on the ecu.

Sounds like your problem may be your stator , ok when cool , but fails when it gets hot , ok again once it cools off !

007Sevens · Mar 9, 2014

gunnerthesnowman said:
Sounds like your problem may be your stator , ok when cool , but fails when it gets hot , ok again once it cools off !

That's the next step. Gonna run it till it shuts down and start testing in the field. Can't diagnose what isn't broken.

gunnerthesnowman · Mar 10, 2014

any update?

007Sevens · Mar 10, 2014

gunnerthesnowman said:
any update?

To busy today. Tomorrows project.

Did a bunch of phoning around to repeatable dealers today. Most are pointing at the stator. One dealer said they have had Stators that test fine in the garage, and have changed them based on experience and solved the problem.

They feel that even if it fails it may still test fine. Not sure I can go along with this but Tomorrow I will see if I can find time to run it till it dies and test for an open circuit.

007Sevens · Mar 11, 2014

Well went for a ride today and couldn't get it to fail. I came home and decided to look a little further into the wiring. My turbo kit has a water pump in front of the fuel tank that i was told to check to see if it had moved across and rub against anything. I pulled the fuel tank back to look around and there it was. When I pulled the tank back the power wires for the fuel pump came taught and there it was a short in the red lead to the pump.

Itermittent Spark

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