Hey, Monte, good post. You might check the other post "PCV worked for me"...lots of good questions and info there. My question on this protection issue is, if you have a PCV unit, and the VR smokes the ECU, will it also do damage to the PCV? Others have written that it blows out all the dash lights too. It almost sounds as if it would be worth it to replace the VR to avoid any collateral damages.
protecting the ECU?
- Thread starter thefullmonte
- Start date
Although Polaris is aware of a problem with the VR I don't think they can really identify the root cause of them failing. Possible poor internals or a faulty system ground. Not sure. Heat is the enemy of all electronics so I'm sure having the capacitor mounted right on top of it doesn't help either.
Putting in a new VR doesn't necessarily ensure success. You are just replacing a working part with an unproven one.
When the VR goes out (fails to do it's job) all electronic components become susceptible. Rather than shorting to ground all the juice is distributed to all your systems which would include your PC V. I will try to pull some pics of the 2 VR from the 800's and 900's tomorrow. I would be surprised if Polaris hasn't already tried this.
So where are we? Back to MH's plan of adding a battery. I was hoping for a different solution, but may have to go that route. I just think there must be a way to get these to short to ground when they go out. Come on guys we can figure this out.
Mine too.
I've read most of these but I don't think the ecm is 5 volts could be wrong but the ecms usually have a 5 volt reference to the sensors and the ecm still is 12 volts, in the automotive world. I am hoping someone can find out for sure. I have no wiring diagram for the 09 dragon so I am not sure. In my theory if you take an older voltage regulator from a older sled 05 and older exluding the 900's and hook it up then that should be a back up. you can get them cheap and I had a 03 voltage regulator fail and it made everything dim so this would be good instead of a voltage spike. would like to know about the 5 volt to the ecm. if that is a fact I think we are not going to find something to help us
I didn't get a photo of the current VR, but here is an attachment of the one for the 05-06 900 I can get my hands on. OEM # is 4010886 and is an aftermarket replacement from SPI.
08 800 part # is 4011731 and current part # is 4012476 for what we are told are the same parts.
This seems like it should be so simple. However, talking with a few friends on the matter it sounds like a very expensive and complicated undertaking. Basically what we need is exactly what the VR is supposed to do. It is going to be very hard to duplicate.
I had a second vote on the battery idea, but my question is how do you hook that up when we have 3 individual wires running to the ECU?
08 800 part # is 4011731 and current part # is 4012476 for what we are told are the same parts.
This seems like it should be so simple. However, talking with a few friends on the matter it sounds like a very expensive and complicated undertaking. Basically what we need is exactly what the VR is supposed to do. It is going to be very hard to duplicate.
I had a second vote on the battery idea, but my question is how do you hook that up when we have 3 individual wires running to the ECU?
That pic looks the same as the current vr.
That's what I was thinking too. Not sure on the internals though. I don't have the money laying around, but I'm tempted to order one to see if it runs. Too bad there isn't a Polaris tech we could ask who could answer that question.
Were there any issues with the VR on the 900's? I don't recall them having any.
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Updated VR Part Number?
My local Polaris dealer in Minneapolis, MN states he sold over 60 new VR's in the last few weeks and that the part number had changed do to some updates done internally in the VR from Polaris's supplier.
He also states that Polaris would not spend the money and time to change part numbers if the part had not been redesigned and fixed? I dont know what to believe at this point but does any one know of any failures with the new part numbered VR?
Also if this new part was redesigned and it fixed all the failures why wouldnt Polaris recall all of the other sleds that have not had the VR replaced yet to save some money since they are fixing sleds that are out of warranty?
It could be worse if they denied coverage if your warranty was expired so that is one positive thing to say? IMO.
My local Polaris dealer in Minneapolis, MN states he sold over 60 new VR's in the last few weeks and that the part number had changed do to some updates done internally in the VR from Polaris's supplier.
He also states that Polaris would not spend the money and time to change part numbers if the part had not been redesigned and fixed? I dont know what to believe at this point but does any one know of any failures with the new part numbered VR?
Also if this new part was redesigned and it fixed all the failures why wouldnt Polaris recall all of the other sleds that have not had the VR replaced yet to save some money since they are fixing sleds that are out of warranty?
It could be worse if they denied coverage if your warranty was expired so that is one positive thing to say? IMO.
C
How many 700s and 800 rmks (not dragons) are having this same problem?
I just looked at the parts and they are all the same, except the main harness for the 800 dragon is different then the 7&8 rmk Not sure why they got diff. harness for the D8 and 8rmk, must be the controls. Are they on handle bars on rmks?
I know I seen one guy on here that was haveing issues with a 700. But have not seen any others. And not sure how many are dragons, or rmks.
Was just wondering, cause if it is mainly the dragons, then maybe there is a ground issue with the different harness? Since all the other components are the same.
I just looked at the parts and they are all the same, except the main harness for the 800 dragon is different then the 7&8 rmk
Not sure why they got diff. harness for the D8 and 8rmk, must be the controls. Are they on handle bars on rmks?I know I seen one guy on here that was haveing issues with a 700. But have not seen any others. And not sure how many are dragons, or rmks.
Was just wondering, cause if it is mainly the dragons, then maybe there is a ground issue with the different harness? Since all the other components are the same.
T
VR issues
Just a thought soldered ground wires to connection at clutch gard.I also placed plastic wire loom on SHARP aluminum bracket at steering post were wires go up to handle bars.You can see this with hood open above airbox.Also checked all mounting bolts for electrical items coils,VR,etc and main aluminum plate to belt guard.These are all grounds and were not real tight just snug.If the VR is to ground extra voltage that is not needed all grounds need to be clean and tight.Also if handwarmers shorted to handlebars can take out a VR than so can a short to ground harness.Just some thoughts.
Just a thought soldered ground wires to connection at clutch gard.I also placed plastic wire loom on SHARP aluminum bracket at steering post were wires go up to handle bars.You can see this with hood open above airbox.Also checked all mounting bolts for electrical items coils,VR,etc and main aluminum plate to belt guard.These are all grounds and were not real tight just snug.If the VR is to ground extra voltage that is not needed all grounds need to be clean and tight.Also if handwarmers shorted to handlebars can take out a VR than so can a short to ground harness.Just some thoughts.
Mine had the updated part # and went down again.
In my mind, the single best thing anyone can doo at this point is to add a chassis to engine ground wire. ALL automotive systems run a ground to both, why not sleds. Considering the loaction of the factory ground location, any flexing of the clutch guard to the chassis could possibly cause a loss of ground. In my world, automotive electrical troubleshooting and engine/trans drivability, ground problems are the number 1 most misdiagnoised thing and most misunderstood. Sled electrical systems are very dirty.
This was the first thing I did to my dragon. Adding ground wires will NEVER cause a problem
I am working on more protection but at this point, it seems that actually no one really knows WHY this is happening. I wouldn't fully discount the idea of fusing the V.R to ECM circuit at this point as NOBODY knows why there is a failure. If this circuit is being comprimised, a fuse would certainly help.
Also fusing hand warmers is a great idea and should be done at the factory. I saw EBB's 975 last year doo this and luckily disconnected them before any electrical component damage was done.
This was the first thing I did to my dragon. Adding ground wires will NEVER cause a problem
I am working on more protection but at this point, it seems that actually no one really knows WHY this is happening. I wouldn't fully discount the idea of fusing the V.R to ECM circuit at this point as NOBODY knows why there is a failure. If this circuit is being comprimised, a fuse would certainly help.
Also fusing hand warmers is a great idea and should be done at the factory. I saw EBB's 975 last year doo this and luckily disconnected them before any electrical component damage was done.
K
The VR's are dying because they are using componets that are just the right wattage. All electronic components are +/- a certain percentage of what they are sold as. More expensive componets have tighter tolorances. If they used higher wattage componets this wouldn't happen because the componets could handle the excess current when an over voltage conditions happens. Fuses and breakers will not work because the current to he ECU doesn't increase enough when the VR goes. If a person knew the reqiured voltage to the ECU it would be easy to build extra protection using zener diodes (high wattage) and resisters as this is basically all a VR is. A 12 V zener diode, and voltage over 12 gets sent to ground thru a resister. To much voltage over 12 and the current gets to hight causing to much heat and melt down.
VR meltdowns, ECU
Keefer, job well done, Zener diode to resistor to ground. Great!! Also maybe stator is putting out some dirty spikes or varying voltages originating from it . Extra grounds too! From clutch cover to chassis cover, to harness ground.
Keefer, job well done, Zener diode to resistor to ground. Great!! Also maybe stator is putting out some dirty spikes or varying voltages originating from it . Extra grounds too! From clutch cover to chassis cover, to harness ground.
Did a little leg work to a local dealer this morning. He said the 08's were the problem and the new part # is a beefed up unit. Granted this doesn't explain Skibreeze's situation.
I have to agree with diamonddave as well. I was looking at adding an additional wire from the aluminum clutch guard ground location to a better ground. As well from motor to ground. Insurance is good.
Considering how many wires and cables I rerouted when I first got my sled I'm almost wondering if there isn't some issue with this. Perhaps some wires rubbing and shorting
I have to agree with diamonddave as well. I was looking at adding an additional wire from the aluminum clutch guard ground location to a better ground. As well from motor to ground. Insurance is good.
Considering how many wires and cables I rerouted when I first got my sled I'm almost wondering if there isn't some issue with this. Perhaps some wires rubbing and shorting
I would agree BUT who has diagnoised this issue as an over-voltage, overcharging problem? I would agree that the overall quality of the electrical components being used may not be of very high quality as well. Malaysian and Indonesian electrical components being used by the OE's seem to be very suspect.
D
Hgh Freq. spikes will damage electronics no matter how good they are. Spurious spikes are killers of electronics..especially digital componets like the ECU. Like RMKboxer said...fuses and circuit breakers are "current" limiting devices not voltage limiting devices.
Voltage regulators are used wherever the unregulated voltage would vary more than can be tolerated by the electrical equipment using that voltage.
The Zener diode idea is viable. In fact old Triumph motorcycles(50's and 60's) only used a Zener on a large heat sink tied to ground as their voltage regulator..nothing fancy..problems with them..well they were Lucas electroniocs.
Zeners are also called "voltage reference diodes" They are designed for specific reverse breakdown voltage. When the avalanche current flows, the voltage across the diode remains constant.
One way might be a zener diode rated for just above your operating voltage. Depends on the tolerance of your load. The zener would be reverse biased to ground from your regulator positive output. If the zener voltage is reached the zener will avalanche and recover when the overvoltage goes away. This is better for transient spikes.
Ruffyrider is on the WA forum from time to time....he is a young current BSEE..he is a Yamaha rider but might be able to help..
Voltage regulators are used wherever the unregulated voltage would vary more than can be tolerated by the electrical equipment using that voltage.
The Zener diode idea is viable. In fact old Triumph motorcycles(50's and 60's) only used a Zener on a large heat sink tied to ground as their voltage regulator..nothing fancy..problems with them..well they were Lucas electroniocs.
Zeners are also called "voltage reference diodes" They are designed for specific reverse breakdown voltage. When the avalanche current flows, the voltage across the diode remains constant.
One way might be a zener diode rated for just above your operating voltage. Depends on the tolerance of your load. The zener would be reverse biased to ground from your regulator positive output. If the zener voltage is reached the zener will avalanche and recover when the overvoltage goes away. This is better for transient spikes.
Ruffyrider is on the WA forum from time to time....he is a young current BSEE..he is a Yamaha rider but might be able to help..
Did a little leg work to a local dealer this morning. He said the 08's were the problem and the new part # is a beefed up unit. Granted this doesn't explain Skibreeze's situation.
I have to agree with diamonddave as well. I was looking at adding an additional wire from the aluminum clutch guard ground location to a better ground. As well from motor to ground. Insurance is good.
Considering how many wires and cables I rerouted when I first got my sled I'm almost wondering if there isn't some issue with this. Perhaps some wires rubbing and shorting
Ok, I picked up my 800 today, and the dealer says that there is nothing wrong with the v.r. this time. I was wrong on my assumption it seems. I do have the updated # v.r. What they did replace was a leaking fuel injector. Now my question is HTF does an injector leaking fuel into a motor cause a wideband to read lean and a turn pistons dry and gray with lean scoring?
WTF? Aside from the update, they only replaced a fuel injector.
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Fuel Injector Failure not VR?
Skibreeze, hey that is good news about the VR and bad news about the injector. If the injector failed to spray all the fuel thru the nozzle into the intake port or cylinder it would go lean, was the injector just leaking fuel around the seem and not spraying the fuel then or was it just leaking into the system thru the intake? So they replaced just one fuel injector? It sounds like you had scoring so did they also replace the sleave or piston? I cant thank you enough for the input on it not being the VR.
Skibreeze, hey that is good news about the VR and bad news about the injector. If the injector failed to spray all the fuel thru the nozzle into the intake port or cylinder it would go lean, was the injector just leaking fuel around the seem and not spraying the fuel then or was it just leaking into the system thru the intake? So they replaced just one fuel injector? It sounds like you had scoring so did they also replace the sleave or piston? I cant thank you enough for the input on it not being the VR.
