What are you trying to accomplish over here, Rob? How many times have you signed off and said you were done here?
Let me be as clear as I can about this: we are very interested in discussions with other user groups, skiers, snowshoers, etc. We are happy to work on compromises that don't include giving up very unique snowmobile terrain to Wilderness. In fact, I have proposed several compromises to the USFS that would be much more beneficial to skiers than additional Wilderness. BUT, we are not interested in YOU being at the table. You have proven yourself to be a very deliberate liar, and an excellent manipulator. I made the mistake of trusting you on more than one occassion and you did a wonderful job of using that against me.
Is this vandalism? Of course not. No more than the non-paying skiers who cut a traverse up a steep line in a lift-served ski area. Vandalism is just another word that you are using to sensationalize this as much as possible and get the most media/PR bang for your buck. What happened at Mission is no different than what happens when a few snowmobiles ride in Wilderness. It is a selfish act of immediate gratification by a couple people who don't understand or care about the impacts they are having on others.
"Is this vandalism" is the title of an article which I had no involvement. Not sure that I have signed off as you say. I ride a snowmobile, for 30 years, I own and ride a 2010 Ski Doo. My strongest interest is skitouring, I use the snowmobile for access to start walking on skis. I registered for this site and follow the rules, per the site owners and will be here as long as the site owners allow. I am trying to have a conversation with snowmobile riders beyond the refusal of reality, bullying, no-compromise, disrespect of others, and denial that we see. As I have stated, I think that most snowmobile riders are normal, good folks. The day is coming, on state and USFS, that public lands will be managed so that much more will be off limits to snowmobiles where now it is a free-for-all. That free-for-all is problematic even for 'you' guys, whether you want to realize it or not. But some seem to think that what they hope is tough-sounding talk and intransigence will maintain the current situation, free-for-all for snowmobiles, which is not properly established. I understand that you and others here want to talk to or sit at the table with those that you think you may bully. Oh thanks for the names, I believe that you have returned spite after I have recognized and been impressed with your - previously- civil behavior.
Our public lands belong to all of us, not just to those who want to push the throttle of their 180 HP+ snowmobile and lean as they cover with ruts much of the forest quickly. Always fascinating to hear the apologists and the equivocal discussion, to hear that it cannot be enforced. Many aspects of our society are orderly not because a policeman is watching each of us- it is because we are a civilized society that places importance on the good of all.
To the apologists I ask is it not that unlawful snowmobile riding occurred that had a significant impact on other citizens? As well, along the entire Wenatchee Mountains unroaded crest accessible areas outside Wilderness include just 4 sections of land closed to snowmobiles, intended for muscle-powered use. And yes, we ski in the Wilderness when we have time to go that far. But some areas are avoided because of the snowmobile traffic on both sides of the Wilderness Boundary. So the other side is...snowmobile riding should be all over the Forest, even remove Wilderness because...? I say, no!
Industry numbers place active, regular snowshoe and backcountry ski recreationalists in WA state at nearly 100,000 regular users of a total of 500,000 who may use the offroad Forest for those activities. That would compare to less than 33,000 registered snowmobiles.
We have great mountains to provide recreation for all of us. There is room for great snowmobile riding areas as well as for muscle-powered winter recreation areas. It must start with respect of others and personal responsibility. As we work with the public land agencies for management of the winter forest for all citizens, it must be clear that there is more than one (motorized) use of the winter forest! The real but unstudied and unconsidered impacts on nature and wildlife are as well, important. Simply owning a $14k machine and having the need to push that throttle while traversing across the breadth of our public lands indeed does NOT have greater importance or trump the rights of others to safely and reasonably engage in muscle-powered recreation on public lands!
