Low elevation clutching help

FitShaced · Mar 4, 2014

I have a stock 2011 m8 153. Trying to get better low elevation performance out of it. I have cutler weights improved trail 65/75 set to 72.99. Stock spring in secondary. I tried a 42/38 helix with poor results. Tried a cutler gold spring in primary first. Great low end but nothing up top over 55. Tried the Stock spring and that worked even better than gold spring, but not much on top end over 55 or so. Then I went back to the straight 36 helix and it performed better than the 42/38. The 42/38 had good acceleration up to 55 mph then it just flattened out and would slowly climb to 70. The straight 36 didn't accelerate as hard to 50 but it would still pull hard up to almost 80. Fastest I could see on speed was very low 80's. Is this all the faster a M8 will run? Not that 80 isn't fast enough i'm just curious if its in the ballpark. Should I try a Straight 40? Would changing the weights in cutlers work better? I have them set up with 2.50 grams in tip, 4.15 middle and 1.34 closest to heel. I'm new to adjustable weights. Should I try a shift assist? I have read mixed reviews about them. I have read many positive reviews about rktek secondary and mds weights. Anybody use rktek at low elevation with good results? I feel like it could use some help on the top end of acceleration. I've always felt like it doesn't accelerate hard past 60/65 mph. It just kinda crawls up to top speed.

I'm going back out with the stock spring and 42/38 helix again on hard pack snow to test once again. I feel like i'm going in circles.

Any help or links to other threads about similar issue would be appreciated thanks

fast eddie · Mar 4, 2014

weight, and more weight

Are you over reving at all? I don't have any experience with cutler weights, but it seems a little light on weight at 73ish. I tried 80g cat weighs here( at low elevation) and it pulls really well. I think 79's would be better but I just recently got mds to try out. I do have the slp pipe kit tho for comparison. Steve at mds set my weights for low elevation for 80.7. Just sounds like you could add more weight to it. Hope this helps. Kevin

FitShaced · Mar 4, 2014

under the hood cat recommends 71.5 gram weights and 40 helix with same springs drive and driven clutches. It isn't over revving at all, seems to be right around 8100-8200.

Thunder101 · Mar 4, 2014

I have a 44/40 for flat land works good .
Where do you have the screw ? Heel mid tip?

Number one I would try is the 71.5 cat weights w your 42/38
OR load your adjustables to 71.5 with the screw in the heel and the 42/38

mbcat · Mar 5, 2014

Hold on, you are way low on primary weight. Put that cutler gold white in primary with 78-80 g weights. Put the 44\40 helix with the cat orange. If you want real perf go with MELS FORMULA X-1 in your secondary.

FitShaced · Mar 6, 2014

78-80 seems high since cat recommends 71.5. unless you need more weight using the cutler gold spring?

fast eddie · Mar 6, 2014

Even with the stock spring you'd be surprised how much weight you can run, I know I have a pipe kit but I can run 80s, I don't think the pipe kit would make that big of a difference

Thunder101 · Mar 6, 2014

Eddie that must be on a 07/09 and a good running one at that, and 36* helix.

I have a modded 09 and a 11 but I have P85's on them and you runn lighter weights in them because the heel of the weight is not as fat. So I run 70rg in my HO @ 1700 ft.

And I have tried the X1 and it needs WAY heavier weights.

fast eddie · Mar 6, 2014

Thunder101 said:
Eddie that must be on a 07/09 and a good running one at that, and 36* helix.

I have a modded 09 and a 11 but I have P85's on them and you runn lighter weights in them because the heel of the weight is not as fat. So I run 70rg in my HO @ 1700 ft.

And I have tried the X1 and it needs WAY heavier weights.

It is an 11, and you're right it is a 36 helix, I just got mds weights but have not tried them yet but Steve did set them up at 80.7 with the added weight in the tip, it's set up for 1100 feet

Thunder101 · Mar 6, 2014

Different weight. Lots of mass in the heel.

mbcat · Mar 6, 2014

buddies 2010 cf 800ho is running 80 gram cutler, cutler gold\white and x-1. It came with 67gram cat weights, yellow white, 44\40 & cat orange in secondary stock. All kinds of belt slip. Primaries need a better spider and thunder abc kit, glide washers help too. The hub & bushing ware out by 3000miles and hang shift. First get a set of 70-80g adjweights, then a 140\305 primary spring. THE X-1 KIT is by far the best and easiest to install for the secondary. The stock 44\40 & org spring are ok. Throw weight at it, they like it! I am running 77 grams with cutler gold\white or purple\white and x-1 with a lot of other goodies on my old cf700 and it rips!

fast eddie · Mar 6, 2014

Thunder101 said:
Different weight. Lots of mass in the heel.

But even with cat weights I'm running 80s, so having the weight in the tip how will that effect it? Not trying to hi-jack your thread fitshaced

FitShaced · Mar 7, 2014

I was finally able to tinker around yesterday with clutches during break at work.
I moved the weights to 71.5 grams and put weight close to heel. I then put the SLP 42/38 helix back on. First test I was running stock primary spring and had similar results to running the 73 grams with straight 36 helix. I think it had harder low end acceleration but similar top end. I then ran the gold cutler spring and that was very similar to the stock primary spring up to 65/70 mph or so. Above 70 I felt like the stock spring had better acceleration/shifting. All testing was done on hard pack trail. I compressed the gold spring to set it for 24 hours like it tells you to before installing it. It helped to read the directions that came with spring. Performed better than the first time I tested the gold spring. I still feel like overall I can gain some more acceleration on the top end. I'll do a bunch of research. I'm sure i'll be able to find more info about this.
I spent enough money this season on snowmobiling and leaving for California to work for a month in a week so my snowmobiling is about done for the year. Hoping I can find some parts at haydays next September to try out. I'll look for a stock cat 44/40 helix, and some weights. As well as 4 straight A arms. Bad luck with stumps out west this year... Glad my bulkhead didn't get bent.

Thanks for the ideas guys.

skidooboy · Mar 8, 2014

sounds like you are running out of gear, if you cant get the rush up top on the trail, you are looking for.

we put 60-60 gears in our 09 m8 153's for trail riding and better fuel economy (0-2000 feetin michigan and northern ontario). it will pull hard and further with the 60-60's than the stock 57-63.

look for guys with 1000's or cf's to sell their 60-60 gearing used for a better deal. make sure you get the correct year gearing with engine reverse. Ski

smokef7 · Mar 9, 2014

I have the same sled,as you, i live in Michigan.For trail set up I run STM adjustable 52 grams base with 14 grams in the heel and 3 grams on one side with 2 grams on the other side in the center with 1 gram in the tip.For the primary I have the cutler gold/white in primary and a good wind blue/white in the secondary with a shift asst with the o46 belt and the 42/38 heilx.I have a old 2 1/2 track that I cut down to a 1 1/2 with 172 1 3/4 studs for the trails I didn't find any difference in running 60/60 gears verses the stock gears . I'm not saying it's the fastest sled on the trail but it will sure surprise the crap out of people when they get beat my a long track,ran a couple radar runs with it (around 800 feet) the best was 96 mph on ice .

After rereading some of the other posts how are you guys running so much weight.I tried a set of stock 77 grams a could pull over 7800 RPMs.With what I'm running now it pulls 8100-8150 all day no mater what track I have on

fast eddie · Mar 9, 2014

smokef7 said:
I have the same sled,as you, i live in Michigan.For trail set up I run STM adjustable 52 grams base with 14 grams in the heel and 3 grams on one side with 2 grams on the other side in the center with 1 gram in the tip.For the primary I have the cutler gold/white in primary and a good wind blue/white in the secondary with a shift asst with the o46 belt and the 42/38 heilx.I have a old 2 1/2 track that I cut down to a 1 1/2 with 172 1 3/4 studs for the trails I didn't find any difference in running 60/60 gears verses the stock gears . I'm not saying it's the fastest sled on the trail but it will sure surprise the crap out of people when they get beat my a long track,ran a couple radar runs with it (around 800 feet) the best was 96 mph on ice .

After rereading some of the other posts how are you guys running so much weight.I tried a set of stock 77 grams a could pull over 7800 RPMs.With what I'm running now it pulls 8100-8150 all day no mater what track I have on

I do have the slp pipe kit and the 2.6 track other than that it's stock. With the 80 gram weights I'm hitting high 7900 for r's so if I didn't buy the mds weights I would have tried 79g weights. Which I think would have been about perfect. I have no idea on my speeds but it pulls hard all the way up

FitShaced · Mar 13, 2014

smokef7 said:
I have the same sled,as you, i live in Michigan.For trail set up I run STM adjustable 52 grams base with 14 grams in the heel and 3 grams on one side with 2 grams on the other side in the center with 1 gram in the tip.For the primary I have the cutler gold/white in primary and a good wind blue/white in the secondary with a shift asst with the o46 belt and the 42/38 heilx.I have a old 2 1/2 track that I cut down to a 1 1/2 with 172 1 3/4 studs for the trails I didn't find any difference in running 60/60 gears verses the stock gears . I'm not saying it's the fastest sled on the trail but it will sure surprise the crap out of people when they get beat my a long track,ran a couple radar runs with it (around 800 feet) the best was 96 mph on ice .

After rereading some of the other posts how are you guys running so much weight.I tried a set of stock 77 grams a could pull over 7800 RPMs.With what I'm running now it pulls 8100-8150 all day no mater what track I have on

I've been reading alot about people running the Blue/White secondary spring in their m8's and liking the performance. I'll have to try one next year and look for cheap used track to cut down. After 600 miles running ditches and trails my 2.5 claw is starting to fold over...
What brand of helix you running? I have a SLP and seems to be a little short in overall length compared to the stock helix. There is a gap between bolt/sheeve ( 1/8 inch) and the helix, where as stock they fit tight ( touching) against another.

Thunder101 · Mar 13, 2014

gap between bolt/sheeve ( 1/8 inch) and the helix,

can we see a pic of this ?

smokef7 · Mar 15, 2014

Stock cat helix,that's all I run I got a bunch of different ones for my f7 and just cut the reverse notch in them .I put a straight 50 in it just for grins and it was good if you had a 3 mile pull with on incline or flakes of snow coming down ,it would drop 10 mph if you hit a fly

Low elevation clutching help

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