Future way to save weight on Axys electric start

Prayn4snow · Feb 17, 2017

1st let me say sorry for mentioning E-Tec "Shot" on the Polaris site, however advancing technology by any of the brands is really good for us consumers. Electronic reverse is a good example that is now used on most brands to save the weight of the heavy reverse gear case that would always break on me in the middle of nowhere.
This link shows what E-tec is going to use for an electric starter saving huge weight from the starter and battery. I already have a light weight battery. I'm sure this can't be adapted to our current sleds but wow the future sounds good. This also shows if you have an idea that is outside the box, send it in to the manufactures. Im sure this will be protected under a patent for a while, but Ill bet money in the future we will see this on all the brands (2smoke that is). http://www.ski-doo.com/technologies...term=CONTENT_TOPIC6|0|0&utm_content=0|0|0|0|0

TreeThrasher · Feb 17, 2017

The SHOT is a sweet of technology for sure. However, it relies on its direct injection system to work...until poo and/or cat take up di, this system won't work. Atleast not in its current design form...the common rail, port type injection is going to require more than a third of a revolution to fire.

Good news is that whatever polaris and cat come up with will likely duck the patent doo has because it will have to be a different design

Jaynelson · Feb 18, 2017

By my redneck math, a current Axys with (true) E-start and pull start on board, is still a good few pounds lighter than this Doo...particularly with a lightweight battery, which is about the easiest mod you could install. Or am I missing something?

goridedoo · Feb 18, 2017

Jaynelson said:
By my redneck math, a current Axys with (true) E-start and pull start on board, is still a good few pounds lighter than this Doo...particularly with a lightweight battery, which is about the easiest mod you could install. Or am I missing something?

I think the point is that your good few pounds would be a few MORE good pounds lighter with this new "system".

wellfed777 · Feb 18, 2017

it's very cool tech no question

now if they could figure out how to make them ride like a polaris i might be interested ha ha :face-icon-small-hap

good for the sport... good for all of us !

JMCX · Feb 18, 2017

I wonder if this would work with an actual battery instead of the capacitor. Then you would have as much crank time as normal. No?

Maybe the the capacitor is charged to more than 12V to get the torque out of the mag.

Prayn4snow · Feb 18, 2017

I already installed a super light weight battery and designed a lightweight battery box out of aluminum that also dissipates heat faster than the (mostly steel) factory box. I just haven't seen a lighter starter. I should have weighed it when I had it out. It's as heavy as the one I just put on a hot rod

volcano buster · Feb 18, 2017

On a tangent here, how slowly can you discharge a capacitor?

Prayn4snow · Feb 18, 2017

This is from a previous post of mine that has pics on battery weight:

1st is the BMP lite weight battery box on the scale at 0.55lbs Part #: BMP-AXYSBATTBOX
2nd is stock battery box at 1.75lbs, its steel that holds heat a long time if your changing a quick drive belt. You have to let it cool awhile. The BMP aluminum one dissipates the heat and I would think should help belt life as well being cooler?
3rd is the BMP lite weight battery from WPS. it has a power meter on top and is 360CCA which is more than the stock battery and only weighs 2.35lbs!!! This is the cheapest weight savings on your sled.
4th is the battery and BMP lite box at 2.9lbs. Part #: BMP-AXYSBATTKIT
5th is the stock battery and box at 14.90 lbs thats as much as my bowling ball! The stock battery is a 270CCA.

mtnsledder · Feb 19, 2017

Just installed electric start on the wife's Axys and weighed it prior to install.

Kit weighed 10.4 lbs without clutch ring gear and battery according to our electronic bathroom scales. Installed a WPS featherweight battery that weighs 3 lbs.

Figure total weight under 14 lbs, not bad.

polaris dude · Feb 19, 2017

Is E-start really that magical? I've never felt like pulling the rope was so draining that it impacted the rest of my day yanking my sled around. Perhaps once I throw a leg over the newest chassis I will understand why people get it.

AKSnowShredder · Feb 19, 2017

Bought my Axys with the E start already installed. When you throw the sled around you don't even know its there, and the convenience factor makes it well worth the added weight (that I never even think about anyways)

TimG · Mar 5, 2017

They really need to figure something else out. I had electric start on my '15 cause it was free that year, and I found it to be loathsome and detestable. You can really feel that added weight on the sled. It's roughly the same as 3 imperial gallons extra of fuel (1/3 of a tank)! Very happy with the pull start on the '16. They start so easy that I don't even know if I'd take the 2 lb. penalty to have the shot start if it was available. 2 lb. added is still 2 lb in the wrong direction. Of course, in that case you could take the recoil off and save 4 lb. that way, and just start it off the clutch first thing in the morning. That would likely be the way to go.

Teth-Air · Mar 5, 2017

There are Ultra-Capacitors out there that should start the sled without a battery. They charge instantly and can be discharge instantly with massive current. I have one on order and am waiting delivery. The problem I am worried about is that the magneto is going to see it as a direct short when charging and this could cause damage to the windings. I might have to devise a charge resistor to slow the charge.

AMAX · Mar 5, 2017

Pulling the rope is no big deal but the magic button can be handy when you are in an awkward position on an incline or 1/2 buried. Plus its just a given that if the technology proves reliable and only weighs a few pounds, capacitor start systems will become normal.

Like regular estart, its sorta nice to have two options when one breaks. Starting off the clutch when a recoil fails early in a trip is a pain.

Rick! · Mar 6, 2017

TreeThrasher said:
The SHOT is a sweet of technology for sure. However, it relies on its direct injection system to work...until poo and/or cat take up di, this system won't work. Atleast not in its current design form...the common rail, port type injection is going to require more than a third of a revolution to fire.

Good news is that whatever polaris and cat come up with will likely duck the patent doo has because it will have to be a different design

The starter/alternator is the part that is key, along with some cool electronics. To make the alternator work both ways, it got bigger and heavier. This starting system will work with carbs, EFI, DFI, whatever ya got. A company I worked with put one on an XC back in 2005...

Prayn4snow · Aug 16, 2017

Now that this has been out for a while, has anyone heard of any other new ideas coming up? I always look forward to seeing new ideas at Haydays.

Teth-Air · Aug 16, 2017

Teth-Air said:
There are Ultra-Capacitors out there that should start the sled without a battery. They charge instantly and can be discharge instantly with massive current. I have one on order and am waiting delivery. The problem I am worried about is that the magneto is going to see it as a direct short when charging and this could cause damage to the windings. I might have to devise a charge resistor to slow the charge.

Update. Polaris has a 10 Amp. breaker that will open if charging above 10 Amperes. (and auto-close on cooling) This is great because then my capacitor charges at full current. The 2012 Doo that I moved it to now has to use a charge resistor to slow the charge in order not to overload the charging circuit and completely shut down the headlights.

The capacitor works great on both brands though. I would get about 3 starts/charge, one immediately after the other. And of course any run time in between does recharge it. About 15 minutes of idle for full charge and should charge much faster riding.

Saves over 12 lbs over stock battery and the battery holder can be changed to something much lighter too.

Only down side is the capacitor case is not waterproof and the installer should seal it or better yet drill a hole in the top and pour in electronic grade potting epoxy to submerge the board. The barrel of the 6 individual capacitors do not need to be submerged.

For those who like their light-weight batteries, I already tried that route and they often die before the end of the second season. These capacitors claim to be good for 0.5 million charge/discharge cycles. I expect 10 years easy, and they are about the same price as a lithium battery.

milehighassassin · Aug 25, 2017

This technology is not new. It's just new to the sled industry. Every vehicle out there that has "start/stop"/ "idle stop" technology in it, basically uses this.

I doubt any patents would stop them from the other three brands using this.

GoBigParts · Aug 26, 2017

I'm still buying sleds with pull start to save weight. If we were still buying Prorides I would get electric start for sure but the Axys motor is much easier to pull start.

Future way to save weight on Axys electric start

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