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Solution to the Clutch Heat problem?

Andystoy

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Excellent video, very good explanation and spread sheet easy to follow but:how much misalignment is acceptable to keep slippage and belt temperatures within parameters that provide decent performance and belt life?
The motor mounts are a compromise of alignment and vibration control and this compromise becomes more difficult as engine size and stroke length increase. Anybody that's ridden an 800cc or larger two stroke has probably felt vibration through their feet or through the handlebars.
Skidoo engineers are well aware of these problems but someone makes a decision on cost versus performance which includes vibration and this package was the result. One bright engineer discovered that machining the driven clutch with a 0.024" wobble at a predetermined spot on the rotation of the engine would reduce engine vibration without having to spend more money working on internal engine design such as crankshaft counterweights etc. Initial testing was positive so it was considered acceptable.
New engine with longer stroke and more power, more vibration, new clutch lighter design with less rotation mass and wobble driven clutch, new narrow chassis with limited air flow and tighter packaging of components, snow ingestion in the deep snow (steam) and the sled needs to be light weight, balanced, affordable and durable.
Evolution of the G4 continues:new clutching, new chassis venting, new motor mounts, lower gearing etc. our pocket books are getting lighter and the sled better but I am not convinced we are there yet and in 2 years we start again? JMO.
Happy Remembrance day to all the veterans.
 

winter brew

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When I worked on clutching setups for Rooster, I would intentionally mis-align my clutches a little to get a "worst case" scenario as most people never take the time to align. It had minimal effect on belt life and clutch temps vs a properly aligned setup and I never experienced belt issues even quite a way out of spec. with proper calibration. Alignment, with engine movement and the mismatch on taper between primary and secondary will always be a compromise. Doo spec already takes into account engine load/movement...which will also vary depending on many variables.
I guess my point is, alignment is important but the difference between perfect and a couple mm out of spec is not going to make the difference between belts lasting a season and being short lived. Calibration of the clutches is a much bigger factor, small changes can make a huge difference in temps. If you have belt issues, don't ignore either.
 

kanedog

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When I worked on clutching setups for Rooster, I would intentionally mis-align my clutches a little to get a "worst case" scenario as most people never take the time to align. It had minimal effect on belt life and clutch temps vs a properly aligned setup and I never experienced belt issues even quite a way out of spec. with proper calibration. Alignment, with engine movement and the mismatch on taper between primary and secondary will always be a compromise. Doo spec already takes into account engine load/movement...which will also vary depending on many variables.
I guess my point is, alignment is important but the difference between perfect and a couple mm out of spec is not going to make the difference between belts lasting a season and being short lived. Calibration of the clutches is a much bigger factor, small changes can make a huge difference in temps. If you have belt issues, don't ignore either.
Off topic winterbrew but how do recommend to port a 174" camo extreme?
1 hole, 2 holes? Where would you port? Thx

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DITCHBANGER

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Guys are getting excited over 1mm in alignment, my buddies axys has worn out mounts for the last 2 seasons..nearly 4000 miles and he is finally changing his belt. Local poo shop does not sell many 800 belts...doo shop does. For many this is prob the last chance for doo to get it right, 3 yrs of updates and not free either. Cat and Poo have great sleds.
 

kanedog

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I have extensive experience in shaft alignment, belt alignment and industrial machinery installation.
Its all the same.
No it's not the same. Shaft alignment and belt alignment are not standard issue on sleds. In fact, the sled industry seems to have a free pass on anything being close to square or aligned. Haha

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C

caper11

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Alignment is alignment, wether its belt, shaft, engine, electric motor. Ive done them all.
Its all the same principles, and procedures, first rule of thumb is have a good base to work with, second is understand thermal growth.
Aligning a belt drive is the simplest and the most forgiving.
 
P
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Problem is it never is aligned if the secondary cannot float you start flexing the belt one way on shift in and on the top end the other way, al the way you run a wobble clutch doing the slip and go.

I say shim it out properly align it and a floating secondary == c-on doo get me a floating secondary kit for the 850. A none wobble clutch would be great too proper clutching can control that wobble clutch mostly.
 

Big10inch

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Or is it as simple as unshrouding the clutches? Neither Cat nor Polaris cover the clutches and neither has belt issues... The covers Doo fits look ridiculously restrictive to the airflow needed to keep these parts running cool.
 
M
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I have 2000 km on my 2018 Freeride and went through 5 belts last year. Later in the season I removed all the plastic around the clutches and cut off the bottom section of the cover. I will say that this did improve belt life but now my clutches are all pitted from the moisture hitting the clutch faces. Hundreds of pits on each one. so maybe helped belt life but reduced clutch life.
 

Ox

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I have 2000 km on my 2018 Freeride and went through 5 belts last year. Later in the season I removed all the plastic around the clutches and cut off the bottom section of the cover. I will say that this did improve belt life but now my clutches are all pitted from the moisture hitting the clutch faces. Hundreds of pits on each one. so maybe helped belt life but reduced clutch life.


Water pitted your alum taper?
Is that even possible?
Seems like if this was the case that your belt would have been slipping?


Has anyone simply geared these down at all?


.
 

Norona

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I have 2000 km on my 2018 Freeride and went through 5 belts last year. Later in the season I removed all the plastic around the clutches and cut off the bottom section of the cover. I will say that this did improve belt life but now my clutches are all pitted from the moisture hitting the clutch faces. Hundreds of pits on each one. so maybe helped belt life but reduced clutch life.

water would never do that, the only way i have seen the faces pitted is from a tool or bolt ping ponging around in there...
 

sledhead_24_7

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^^^^^^ a friend of mine had one the push lock washers that holds the felt to the bottom of the air box fall off and got munched by his clutch’s. Ruined both of them.

We found small remnants of the washer in the bottom of the clutch compartment, only reason we knew what happened.
 

donbrown

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^^^^^^ a friend of mine had one the push lock washers that holds the felt to the bottom of the air box fall off and got munched by his clutch’s. Ruined both of them.

We found small remnants of the washer in the bottom of the clutch compartment, only reason we knew what happened.

Did you remove the felt? Put reflective aluminum tape on air tunnel ?
 

snowmanx

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Well after a year of being on the snow how did the re-alignment work for those who had problems with belts?

Anyone re-align and still blow belts excessively?
 

Teth-Air

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Well after a year of being on the snow how did the re-alignment work for those who had problems with belts?

Anyone re-align and still blow belts excessively?

It was a combo of issues. Too soft of a spring in the secondary, sloppy motor mounts and BRP added some insurance with super low gearing and extra cooling to the clutches. Just do the motor mounts and secondary spring and I bet most issues are resolved.
 
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