Machine shop may have found the belt problems

powdermuncher · Mar 17, 2017

Just the fact that you can only see the sheaf and nothing else is questionable also really no way to assure it is a P drive clutch. How does it rotate while on a crankshaft stub.

To many questions not enough answers.

The sheaf is press fit onto the Steel hub, getting hot enough could possibly get it to move , once that happens no machining will fix that clutch only replacement will:face-icon-small-dismakes makes me think about the cooling fins on the 2018 that would keep it from getting hot and stop that (possible) problem.

Bobbysky · Mar 17, 2017

Christopher I understand how these things get blown out of proportion on the forums and social media. When I first started reading about it I thought well I'm glad I got a good one and then at 173 miles pulled a cord. Now on my 5th belt at 850 miles. I personally ride with 5 other people locally that bought 850s this year and everyone has blown at least one belt. 4 of them have blown between 3-5 belts with roughly the same mileage as me. The one that has only blown one belt was a girl, no disrespect to her because she shreds, but still. I can handle a new belt ever 700-1000 miles per belt but not 200-250. I'm not one to come on here and complain because deep down I absolutely love this sled but these heat issues are going to cause issues down the line. That will really make me mad if my sled is down during the prime part of a season.

White Rad · Mar 17, 2017

tchriste said:
well gentlemen just came off the hill with my 2017 850 Summit X. I have over 1000 km on the original belt. I was riding in 2 ft. of powder when all of a sudden the engine started failing, loud rattle from bottom end. opened up the clutch side cover, took off the belt guard and fired up the sled, didn't want to start. first thing we noticed was that the inner sheave was doing exactly what's happening in the video, the outer sheave was running straight. the sled is at the shop, i'll see what happens. by the way very little vibration and I did have the motor mount spacer in.

Well that's no fun. Noises dont show up on the computer hopefully they can figure it out :face-icon-small-ton just a few more minutes of WOT run time and you could of taken it in with a rod laying in the belly pan and coolant peeing out of a massive hole in the case. Makes it easier to diagnose the problem for everyone

resent:

paulharris · Mar 17, 2017

this should be an easy one for everyone to check. pull off belt guard and hold a piece of flat bar or something similar close to fixed sheave and have someone pull over engine checking for runout. (tether off of course so engine does not start). that one in video was so bad its easy to see with the eye. or if you have a dial indicator laying around that would make it really easy. manufacturers like doo and polaris are experts at denying any issues or wrongdoing, so really there is no reason to wait for them to give answers that will never come.

edgey · Mar 17, 2017

BRP Corporate has an ace in their hole.
Every Single sled that comes into a dealership for a warranty claim gets reported back to corporate, so they ACTUALLY know what the real world failure rate is.[/QUOTE]

Yes they know, but do think they will ever give the real numbers on either the belt issue or bulkhead cracking!!!!

Vern · Mar 17, 2017

For 2018 doo is replacing this particular sheave for the new finned design, coincidence, or is the update of the finned sheave a means of fixing a problem without admitting a problem?

P.s. someone just posted a video of an 850 secondary with a dial indicator on it showing a good .010" of runout.

After cat switched to team clutches did doo switch to cats old clutch supplier?

mtncat · Mar 17, 2017

why did they not check the run out centered off the crankshaft taper of the clutch, this reminds me of the old days when Perk started advertising the super cure for the TRA.
if they are truly that far out Doo would replace them so why spend the $ to have this done

YAMA S · Mar 17, 2017

winter brew said:
No way you would not be able to feel that.
Any theories as to what would cause this? I have only seen this when someone tried to pry their clutch off without a proper puller....at that point it is ruined in my book.
I highly doubt it was like this at the point of manufacture or it would be very evident at balancing. It would vibrate like a mo-fo!
A guy should be able to eyeball their clutch or throw a dial indicator on it to quickly see if its an issue on a particular sled. That would definitely explain blowing belts but I find it hard to believe the vibration this would create would allow the sled to be ridden.

For one..... the video is from a VERY reputable shop!
Two..... I've already seen people put dial indicators on & its just as bad!

FearMyWrX · Mar 17, 2017

I was the new 18's in person last week at the Ski-Doo tour and didn't see any cooling fins. Perhaps those still had the 2017 clutch and the 18 is still being made? I did see the brace installed however.

Vern · Mar 17, 2017

One vid on faceyspace shows .025" of runout on the stationary sheave while on the crank. The dial indicator is at like a 45 degree angle to the sheave so I'm sure if it was square to the sheave it would probably be even worse.

Someone should take an indicator to a dealer and check some new sleds on the lot. That could help show weather it's piss poor quality control or if they're warping from heat/usage.

paulharris · Mar 18, 2017

tchriste said:
well gentlemen just came off the hill with my 2017 850 Summit X. I have over 1000 km on the original belt. I was riding in 2 ft. of powder when all of a sudden the engine started failing, loud rattle from bottom end. opened up the clutch side cover, took off the belt guard and fired up the sled, didn't want to start. first thing we noticed was that the inner sheave was doing exactly what's happening in the video, the outer sheave was running straight. the sled is at the shop, i'll see what happens. by the way very little vibration and I did have the motor mount spacer in.

bummer to hear. any one who has an 850 should be running the piss out of it before the season is over. if its gonna go you might as well blow the chit out of it now and have your warranty work taken care of it over the summer so your ready for next season

fredw · Mar 18, 2017

I was at redline today and seen this sheive first hand, it's true.. as I was leaving a second 850 showed up and it was looking the same thing from watching it vibrate on sled, almost hard to believe doo would not catch this crap on the line, tra looking better by the second

winter brew said:
No way you would not be able to feel that.
Any theories as to what would cause this? I have only seen this when someone tried to pry their clutch off without a proper puller....at that point it is ruined in my book.
I highly doubt it was like this at the point of manufacture or it would be very evident at balancing. It would vibrate like a mo-fo!
A guy should be able to eyeball their clutch or throw a dial indicator on it to quickly see if its an issue on a particular sled. That would definitely explain blowing belts but I find it hard to believe the vibration this would create would allow the sled to be ridden.

PaulAnd · Mar 18, 2017

christopher said:
I would be dang surprised if we don't hear back from the powers that be on this video in the next week or so.

If this were true, it would totally explain the belt issue that some of the deep powder riders have been experiencing, but a little bird tells me its just not so...:face-icon-small-hap

So you know something? But cant say?

Redline as in Redline turbo's?
Are these clutches off of turbo sleds?
I was thinking if there was a "Real Problem" with the clutching on these sleds adding a turbo should shine a light on any weak area's...

Tahoe54 · Mar 18, 2017

christopher said:
I think, in all honesty, that is actually a TRUE STATEMENT on SkiDoo's part.
While there have been many people talking about issues, when you go out and REALLY start tracking it down, you will find many of SAME PEOPLE are cross posting their problems on multiple different social media sites which serves to distort the impression of how many actual real world failures there are.

BRP Corporate has an ace in their hole.
Every Single sled that comes into a dealership for a warranty claim gets reported back to corporate, so they ACTUALLY know what the real world failure rate is.

That's if they are claiming it under warranty. The first person I met this year riding an 850 had just broken his bulkhead, before this it was all Internet banter in my mind. I actually advised him to submit a claim on it which he hadn't thought of doing. So, how many spare belts have people bought or bulkheads replaced without ever contacting Doo, maybe there spare part sales are a better indicator.

volcano buster · Mar 18, 2017

christopher said:
BRP Corporate has an ace in their hole.

For clarification, which manufacturer doesn't have a similar ability to track this?

Slick · Mar 18, 2017

christopher said:
I think, in all honesty, that is actually a TRUE STATEMENT on SkiDoo's part.
While there have been many people talking about issues, when you go out and REALLY start tracking it down, you will find many of SAME PEOPLE are cross posting their problems on multiple different social media sites which serves to distort the impression of how many actual real world failures there are.

BRP Corporate has an ace in their hole.
Every Single sled that comes into a dealership for a warranty claim gets reported back to corporate, so they ACTUALLY know what the real world failure rate is.

They also track parts sales, so if they really want to assure transparency and give consumers some relief regarding the "fabrications and false rumours" I believe they should publish the number of belts and bulkhead components sold for the G4 sleds. That would dispel the rumours, or not ..

fredw · Mar 18, 2017

No, none, both are on stock sleds I seen, belt burners, bought out of mid Alberta

Would this not be in doos best interest to down play it and claim it to be a internet hoaks.. sure would be, but get your head out of the sand folks, it's happening sure as sh1t..

Bad belts, bad alignment, pdrive inaccuracy, pine cone bulkhead destruction, to steep track attack angle, drivers that are excessively wearing out, premature track wear, darty skid, this new doo has not had its fair share of first year problems

PaulAnd said:
So you know something? But cant say?

Redline as in Redline turbo's?
Are these clutches off of turbo sleds?
I was thinking if there was a "Real Problem" with the clutching on these sleds adding a turbo should shine a light on any weak area's...

Broski · Mar 18, 2017

paulharris said:
bummer to hear. any one who has an 850 should be running the piss out of it before the season is over. if its gonna go you might as well blow the chit out of it now and have your warranty work taken care of it over the summer so your ready for next season

Because summer is the only time Skidoo can replace your motor....they're back-ordered now as usual!

Bobbysky · Mar 18, 2017

I messaged another guy I ride with that has been having belt problems with his 850. He blew his last belt in 70 miles and now has burned through 5 belts in about 900 miles. He took it into his dealer to see if there was a problem and low and behold the first thing they checked was the primary back shive. Your never going to believe it but it was out by 60-80 thousands. They ordered a new inner pdrice shive. He hasn't rode it yet with the new one in but I'm waiting on a report back. But I find it strange that the dealer knew to look for and test that. Hopefully this is a major piece of the belt blowing problem.

Everyone that has this issue needs to stand up to doo and not take "there is no problems" for an answer. In this day an age the internet is a powerful tool for businesses and against them. A 4 year warranty is only as good as the company that is supplying it and doesn't mean much if he problems are just going to be passed off as non issues.

paulharris · Mar 18, 2017

Bobbysky said:
I messaged another guy I ride with that has been having belt problems with his 850. He blew his last belt in 70 miles and now has burned through 5 belts in about 900 miles. He took it into his dealer to see if there was a problem and low and behold the first thing they checked was the primary back shive. Your never going to believe it but it was out by 60-80 thousands. They ordered a new inner pdrice shive. He hasn't rode it yet with the new one in but I'm waiting on a report back. But I find it strange that the dealer knew to look for and test that. Hopefully this is a major piece of the belt blowing problem.

Everyone that has this issue needs to stand up to doo and not take "there is no problems" for an answer. In this day an age the internet is a powerful tool for businesses and against them. A 4 year warranty is only as good as the company that is supplying it and doesn't mean much if he problems are just going to be passed off as non issues.

60-80 thousandths is a chit ton. you are right, social media is powerful....start demanding solutions on doos facebook page.

Machine shop may have found the belt problems

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