Robbed of Power

shoppingcart111 · Sep 7, 2009

I posted this on Doo Talk aswell. So I bought a new 09 xp154 last year and it ran fine for about two trips then while in chappel after a huge dump of fresh the thing was bogging on hills. First I thought it was fowlled plugs but that wasnt the case, intake plugged, not the case, and the clutching was fine as far as I could see. It would run fine except while trying to pull a hill, it would bog and wouldnt let me make the climb, had to run the lake for a while then it worked fine except when I tried to pull a hill, same thing. Im leaning towards the overheat issue when the ecu retards the timing. Has anyone else had this isssue? The dealer tested the dpm etc and found no codes and everything to be working fine but that's at the dealer not on the hill. They want to send me to the hills with a new ecu and dpm to try if I have the same issues. HELP.

winter brew · Sep 7, 2009

How do you know it wasn't intake plugging? Exhaust plugging is another common issue, do you run a aftermarket silencer?
Is the clutching stock? They will drop a good amount of RPM if running too much pin weight...might be OK on flats but will drop alot under a load.
If everything else has been eliminated I would inspect the primary and secondary.
When you say bog....how much RPM drop are we talking?

shoppingcart111 · Sep 7, 2009

As far as I know it wasnt intake or exhaust plugging, the clutching is stock and the sled ran absolutly perfect for 2-3 rides before then bam. I think I was losing about 200 rpm?

triple7 · Sep 7, 2009

Get ahold of Winter Brew. Its your clutching. 200 rpm drop is pretty darn normal with stock clutching when the snow gets deep.

Jake

winter brew · Sep 7, 2009

200 rpm drop is pretty normal with stock clutching under a load......clogged intake/exhaust or deto sensor etc...will feel like you dropped a cylinder.

rabbi · Sep 9, 2009

I have on 08 XP 154 everest, and i had the EXACT SAME PROBLEM at the end of the season, As long as the snow was packed, i could climb anything and the sled ran great, but as soon as i got in powder , (even a little bit) and under a load the motor would drop significan rpm's and you could NOT depend on it, the rpms, would fluctuate and spike up and down but it is impossible to ride a machine that acts like this, IT IS MADNING ,,,,PLEASE ADVISE. i was also told to try a new dpm, so i ended up replacing it on the hill to see if it made a difference.......NEGATIVE. I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT CLUTCHING BUT WOULD CLUTCH ISSUE CAUSE THE RPMS TO DROP AND SURGE UNDER A LOAD?????????????????????????? HELP ME.

winter brew · Sep 9, 2009

Rabbi....the '08's had issues with the Primary clutch spring cap bushing wearing.I have seen them junk after 200 miles, other last for 1000+.
It wears, then other bushings wear and the rollers wear....all would account for big RPM fluctuation. No way to tell without looking in the primary.

mctrailboss · Sep 9, 2009

not sure if this is your problem, but the intakes plug up alot in the powder, I run a timbersled intake and am often the envy of everyone else when their sleds aren't running good in the powder. you won't notice big power gains if any at all but it definately takes out the bog in the powder. and at about $200 it can make the big snow days that much more enjoyable.

JohnnyH · Sep 9, 2009

rabbi said:
I have on 08 XP 154 everest, and i had the EXACT SAME PROBLEM at the end of the season, As long as the snow was packed, i could climb anything and the sled ran great, but as soon as i got in powder , (even a little bit) and under a load the motor would drop significan rpm's and you could NOT depend on it, the rpms, would fluctuate and spike up and down but it is impossible to ride a machine that acts like this, IT IS MADNING ,,,,PLEASE ADVISE. i was also told to try a new dpm, so i ended up replacing it on the hill to see if it made a difference.......NEGATIVE. I DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT CLUTCHING BUT WOULD CLUTCH ISSUE CAUSE THE RPMS TO DROP AND SURGE UNDER A LOAD?????????????????????????? HELP ME.

I fought the same problem all last winter. 5 belts later, a new primary clutch, clutches aligned 2 times, and a new dpm. At the end of the year I found that my Mag side cylinder was 30 PSI lower than the Pto. So I am now waiting for a new top end, and pray that my sled is fixed. Only 500Mi

shoppingcart111 · Sep 10, 2009

Thanks for all the insite guys. I'm leaning towards it being a DPM fault although the dealer tested it and its working fine, who's to say its not working in the alpine. I had a polaris rmk with Thunder jets on it and one of the needles was turned up that I didn't know about and that day I couldn't get up a steep part of the trail at Chappel due to the fact that is was pouring gas in the cylinder and bogging, and that's what this feels like.

REV4ARUSH · Sep 10, 2009

I agree with Winter Brew on the primary cap bushings. My buddies 08 had about 500 miles on it last year and would intermittently only get about 6500 rpms. Pulled primary apart and replaced cap with newer design. We also drilled four one inch holes in the back of the airbox and covered with slp prefilter to help with the deep snow bogs.

Original OT · Sep 10, 2009

shoppingcart111 said:
I posted this on Doo Talk aswell. So I bought a new 09 xp154 last year and it ran fine for about two trips then while in chappel after a huge dump of fresh the thing was bogging on hills. First I thought it was fowlled plugs but that wasnt the case, intake plugged, not the case, and the clutching was fine as far as I could see. It would run fine except while trying to pull a hill, it would bog and wouldnt let me make the climb, had to run the lake for a while then it worked fine except when I tried to pull a hill, same thing. Im leaning towards the overheat issue when the ecu retards the timing. Has anyone else had this isssue? The dealer tested the dpm etc and found no codes and everything to be working fine but that's at the dealer not on the hill. They want to send me to the hills with a new ecu and dpm to try if I have the same issues. HELP.

Here's a few things that can cause you trouble.....

Clutching.... could be as simple as pin weight, or something common like heat soak as in your belt is cooking or a dirty clutch good for a 200 rpm lose.... This is easley detected by inspecting your belt to see if it's been "glazed" and heat soaked. Also have a look at your clutch sheaves and inspect if there is rubber residue on the primary sheaves. Take the clutch apart to clean and inspect. Im a believer of cleaning the clutch every 3rd ride. It makes a differance imho.

Air Intake....If any of the intakes are plugged sluggish perforamance can and will occure. The "fine dry powder" gets into everything while the "wet stick powder" clogs everything.

Suspension, those stock shocks are horrible and when they freeze there usless imho. If your a heavy guy the the rear torsion springs the OEM's installs might be to light causing the sled to sag which will cause the running board to drag in the snow causing sluggish performance...Is your rear suspension packed wit snow ?

Track Sag...a new track will stretch and while the track is under power the track "ballons" if your track is too loose while your on the throttle you will lose trackspeed.

When climbing uphill in the deep powder it's all about keeping your trackspeed up.

OT

rabbi · Sep 11, 2009

winter brew said:
Rabbi....the '08's had issues with the Primary clutch spring cap bushing wearing.I have seen them junk after 200 miles, other last for 1000+.
It wears, then other bushings wear and the rollers wear....all would account for big RPM fluctuation. No way to tell without looking in the primary.

I think that you are right on the money with this statement. Now, like i said , I dont know a lot about clutching, so does anyone know a good "clutch man"?
I work on cars boats and motorcycles all the time, and i would love to be able to work on my own sled, is this something that i can figure out? I live in Southeastern idaho and if needed i will take it down to Utah somewhere, but i need some recomendations! I have worked with BoBs Intermountain in Pocatello but they havent really mentioned that this could be the issue and they sold me a DPM that didnt fix the problem. so if anyone needs a DMP, let me know. other than that i think i would like to give another dealer a chance. ANY IDEAS??????? Thanks again everyone.

shoppingcart111 · Sep 11, 2009

Original OT said:
Here's a few things that can cause you trouble.....

Clutching.... could be as simple as pin weight, or something common like heat soak as in your belt is cooking or a dirty clutch good for a 200 rpm lose.... This is easley detected by inspecting your belt to see if it's been "glazed" and heat soaked. Also have a look at your clutch sheaves and inspect if there is rubber residue on the primary sheaves. Take the clutch apart to clean and inspect. Im a believer of cleaning the clutch every 3rd ride. It makes a differance imho.

Air Intake....If any of the intakes are plugged sluggish perforamance can and will occure. The "fine dry powder" gets into everything while the "wet stick powder" clogs everything.

Suspension, those stock shocks are horrible and when they freeze there usless imho. If your a heavy guy the the rear torsion springs the OEM's installs might be to light causing the sled to sag which will cause the running board to drag in the snow causing sluggish performance...Is your rear suspension packed wit snow ?

Track Sag...a new track will stretch and while the track is under power the track "ballons" if your track is too loose while your on the throttle you will lose trackspeed.

When climbing uphill in the deep powder it's all about keeping your trackspeed up.

OT

This wasn't a suspension issue, it felt like running super rich and bog, plus it would clear if I went to the lake and did some speed runs then went back to the hill it might work or it would bog again.

rabbi · Sep 11, 2009

The issues that you have described are the same problems that i am having, I dont think it has anything to do with altitude, suspension, jetting etc, I reallly think that my primary or secondary clutch components need cleaned. Have you gone through any belts?

mcgyver · Sep 11, 2009

rabbi said:
I think that you are right on the money with this statement. Now, like i said , I dont know a lot about clutching, so does anyone know a good "clutch man"?
I work on cars boats and motorcycles all the time, and i would love to be able to work on my own sled, is this something that i can figure out? I live in Southeastern idaho and if needed i will take it down to Utah somewhere, but i need some recomendations! I have worked with BoBs Intermountain in Pocatello but they havent really mentioned that this could be the issue and they sold me a DPM that didnt fix the problem. so if anyone needs a DMP, let me know. other than that i think i would like to give another dealer a chance. ANY IDEAS??????? Thanks again everyone.

if your looking for another dealer, try Ken @ Island Park Adventures.....They test their setups and are pretty close to spot on....I could probably get a setup with a little less heat, but I'm happy with it and it has been trouble free.

my 09 was great all last season, 750 miles. I am on my second belt that has about 400 miles on it and still looks brand new. the first belt was my fault as I went right over the top of a tree in a pretty good climb and sucked it up into the tunnel... that happening on a hot belt = belt explosion

shoppingcart111 · Sep 11, 2009

rabbi said:
The issues that you have described are the same problems that i am having, I dont think it has anything to do with altitude, suspension, jetting etc, I reallly think that my primary or secondary clutch components need cleaned. Have you gone through any belts?

No I haven't gone through any belts, I guess I rulled out clutches as the machine was fiarly new at this point with only 4 rides on it, guess I'll pull the clutches apart and see.

JohnnyH · Sep 12, 2009

You really should just take a few min to check the compression.
It was just a wag when I checked mine and I was blown away.

You cant clutch for inconsistent HP

Original OT · Sep 12, 2009

shoppingcart111 said:
This wasn't a suspension issue, it felt like running super rich and bog, plus it would clear if I went to the lake and did some speed runs then went back to the hill it might work or it would bog again.

How many miles on the XP when he trouble began to occure ?......And when your climbing was it in deep snow (wet or dry) ? .....and did you happen to notice the bog coming from the right side of the sled ?.....do you run an aftermarket can ?.......What size jets are you running and at what elevation....When your climbing are you wide-open, half throttle ? Has Your Sled Ever Been Correctly Set-Up ?

A little more info would be helpful.

OT

JohnnyH · Sep 12, 2009

Original OT said:
Has Your Sled Ever Been Correctly Set-Up ?

OT

Would you expand on a correct set up

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