J
Mine on the right side was just about to fall out today. Luckly noticed it while it was in the truck!
Rear axle issues!
- Thread starter Two Creeks
- Start date
T
Lost my axel bolt this weekend in Mcbride BC heading up the trail. Got lucky, could have easily ruined the whole weekend, but only lost a half day as the local sled shop was able to butter it up to get me through the weekend. Called my dealership where i purchased the machine and they say its not their baby. Gonna chat with Skidoo Canada tomorrow, they need to but out a recall or a bulletin before someone gets stranded or hurt.... 235Miles on my 154 when it happened.
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I know one thing, mine is getting a healthy dose of red loctite before it sees the snow again!
This seems like a common theme on the 14 XM. The block behind the two washers has been bored a little and they went to 2 washers. If you look at the contact patch behind the washers is like only 2-3mm. So its not getting a lot of contact.
On the 13XM the block was solid and they used a conical washer which made good contact. This must be a vendor thing for Doo as the 13 block says its unavailable. My dealer in Golden showed me this and they have sent the info to Doo.
Here is a pic of the block setup
I haven't taken our 14 apart yet, does the washer not sit into the cutout? It looks like the washer is larger than the cutout? If thats what they did they shouldn't be surprised they wont stay tight....thats just stupid, it has to be solid to hold torque. :face-icon-small-dis
Z
sounds like the 14"s are worse but i just checked my 13 and it was loose thanks for this post prob saved me a huge headache
I'm with Summitboy, we should confirm if there is a difference between the outer aluminum block on the 13's and 14's. Just loctited my buddy's 154 today. Loose on LHS, so add another to the list.
I have an Arctic Cat M skid from my Nytro and the front skid arm mounting bolt (3/8-16) has a very thick concave washer on it. Going to check thickness and maybe use it with the C & T spacer when it arrives.
OTM
I have an Arctic Cat M skid from my Nytro and the front skid arm mounting bolt (3/8-16) has a very thick concave washer on it. Going to check thickness and maybe use it with the C & T spacer when it arrives.
OTM
N
Let us know if you actually get through to someone.
N
Depth of thread is 1.25" +, bolt thread with two washers is .900" +-, so you could get rid of both if you wanted.
I guess Doo figured if they put a counterbore in the alum T spacer and added two washers from Home Depot they would have a stacked spring washer set up.
T
Got in touch with BRP, they said to bring it to the dealer. So i did, and it has to go through a warranty process to get parts that were damaged and missing replaced. They have to have a certain amount of warranty claims before it becomes a recall or bulletin. Hope to have my machine back soon. Ill keep you posted on how the process plays out...
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I checked 2 14's today, all loose. I will try to remember to check the outer block on my 13 tomorrow to see if its flat or has the cutout.
N
I posted this on Doo talk earlier.
Looks like we have a few things working against us, before coming back to Doo from the heavy but well built team I was told the bean counters had been hacking at the Doo's, I guess the engineers are on leave as well.
Looks like the shaft is too short, normally this is what is torqued up and the spacers are just that " spacers ", and yes there has to be some crush fit but not .100"
Last I checked plastic doesn't like to be torqued up...
I'm taking one flaw out and that's the countersink, whatever that is for.
As it sits now they will never be truly tight and always working the bolts.
Locktite and warranty I guess.
Looks like we have a few things working against us, before coming back to Doo from the heavy but well built team I was told the bean counters had been hacking at the Doo's, I guess the engineers are on leave as well.
Looks like the shaft is too short, normally this is what is torqued up and the spacers are just that " spacers ", and yes there has to be some crush fit but not .100"
Last I checked plastic doesn't like to be torqued up...
I'm taking one flaw out and that's the countersink, whatever that is for.
As it sits now they will never be truly tight and always working the bolts.
Locktite and warranty I guess.
On my 13' the bolts were loose. 230 miles, and I had made sure they were tight before I ever rode it. The outer aluminum block is flat where the washer sits, not machined out like the 14's. So tonight I put some blue locktight on there, tightened them down, and will just keep an eye on it.
I put an XP skid w/ Tmotion in my 04 rev and the block had no inset for the washer and the bolt supplied had fairly thick locktite already on the bolt but I wire wheeled it off and put my own liquid locktite on the bolts made it a lot easier when tightening the bolts as installing the goopy locktite that was applied to the bolt made it tricky to tighten the axle up bolt would spin the axle before you could get it tightened to the block to get the other side tightened ya know. after removing the goopy locktite the bolt spun in with my finger each side and after I got the track tension set I put a lot of liquid Loctite on and the outer washer in the Tmo kit were black spring type washer same color as the bolts nothing has come loose yet but I could see what you guys are talkin about and could see how this could happen pretty easily, I also strengthened my lower rear scissor part to provent brakeage before installing the skid, love the Tmo really works good.
Wildcard
Wildcard
Z
13 confirm
here is a pic of what my 13 summit xm 154 looks like (it was loose)
here is a pic of what my 13 summit xm 154 looks like (it was loose)
P
It looks to me that BRP didn't put Loctite on the bolt. The older xp's had that yellow Loctite on them.
Anyone that had the rear skid out or changed back axle will remember this.
The bolt is the picture a few threads back looks to be clean and no Loctite.
My 2 cents:face-icon-small-win
Anyone that had the rear skid out or changed back axle will remember this.
The bolt is the picture a few threads back looks to be clean and no Loctite.
My 2 cents:face-icon-small-win
My 13' did have the yellow lock tight on the threads of the bolts. Now it has yellow & blue. But I did tighten the bolts some before ever riding mine, so when I did that I probably broke the yellow lock tight free?
Z
camera angle,there is yellow loctite in the rear bolts from brp but mine were still loose i specifically pulled that bolt and took the pics to try to help supporth thisn thread
Guys:
Posted this over on DooTalk and I am looking for anyone who had the plastic block on your rear axle fail in some way? The one between your rail and wheel.
What Nine2Nine and I have figured is that when assembling the rear axle on your sled , the first bolt you tighten on your axle will fit snugly against the axle and tighten properly at the recommended 35 ft-lbs. The second side is different. It will torque to the required torque, but will not tighten against the shaft. There is probably 0.020" between the aluminum block and the shaft at the recommended torque.
The concern on these axles is that you are compressing the plastic 0.050" or greater and over time the plastic will either compress and loosen or outright break. So IMO, its not a question of IF your axle will slacken, but WHEN.
Loctite will help keep the bolts in, but may not keep the axle tight. So to ensure your wheels stay requires two checks:
1. Confirm bolt is at recommended 35 ft-lbs torque.
2. Use an adjustable or vice grips and check that you can't easily twist the aluminum block the bolt goes through. If you can twist the block, your clamping force is limited and you are relying on the adjuster bolt to keep your shaft in place.
Have a look at the picture below to see what I mean about twisting the block. You don't have to twist it more than 1/16", it's just to confirm you still have some clamping force on the axle.
Hopefully the engineers at BRP have considered all this and it's not an issue, but am interested to hear if there have been plastic failures or if axles are slack even though they are torqued properly.
OTM
Posted this over on DooTalk and I am looking for anyone who had the plastic block on your rear axle fail in some way? The one between your rail and wheel.
What Nine2Nine and I have figured is that when assembling the rear axle on your sled , the first bolt you tighten on your axle will fit snugly against the axle and tighten properly at the recommended 35 ft-lbs. The second side is different. It will torque to the required torque, but will not tighten against the shaft. There is probably 0.020" between the aluminum block and the shaft at the recommended torque.
The concern on these axles is that you are compressing the plastic 0.050" or greater and over time the plastic will either compress and loosen or outright break. So IMO, its not a question of IF your axle will slacken, but WHEN.
Loctite will help keep the bolts in, but may not keep the axle tight. So to ensure your wheels stay requires two checks:
1. Confirm bolt is at recommended 35 ft-lbs torque.
2. Use an adjustable or vice grips and check that you can't easily twist the aluminum block the bolt goes through. If you can twist the block, your clamping force is limited and you are relying on the adjuster bolt to keep your shaft in place.
Have a look at the picture below to see what I mean about twisting the block. You don't have to twist it more than 1/16", it's just to confirm you still have some clamping force on the axle.
Hopefully the engineers at BRP have considered all this and it's not an issue, but am interested to hear if there have been plastic failures or if axles are slack even though they are torqued properly.
OTM
P
i definatly wish i read this thread before i went to the mountains.
crap.
one day of riding lost to this problem.
i lost one bolt, washers, the square aluminium washer and i broke the plastic spacer where the tensioner bolt touches.
i got to ride one more day with some hillbilly mfg:ing.
i was lucky.
i was riding with some slower riders and stopped to wait for them and just went to fiddle around and lift my sled to check track tension. i let i down jumped on the sled and gased it. and it cogged over on the track. looked down and found that my rear axel was all crooked forward.
one more to the books.
crap.
one day of riding lost to this problem.
i lost one bolt, washers, the square aluminium washer and i broke the plastic spacer where the tensioner bolt touches.
i got to ride one more day with some hillbilly mfg:ing.
i was lucky.
i was riding with some slower riders and stopped to wait for them and just went to fiddle around and lift my sled to check track tension. i let i down jumped on the sled and gased it. and it cogged over on the track. looked down and found that my rear axel was all crooked forward.
one more to the books.
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