- Oct 14, 2008
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- 3,859
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82mph@1-1
90mph@overdrive, fully shifted out.
It is unlikely the sled will ever reach 1-1 which means that it is geared too high.
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174 turbo sleds
- Thread starter xpspenziv
- Start date
90mph@overdrive, fully shifted out.
It is unlikely the sled will ever reach 1-1 which means that it is geared too high.
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2.33 seems to be the optimum gear ratio on a turbo 174. That was my understanding from talking with others. About 155/163. The 174 came geared @ 2.34. I tried gearing up 1 tooth on the top gear. 26 tooth. The secondary couldn't hold the power with the set up I had in it at the time. Pulled a cord then blew a belt. Those were the only 2 belt casualties in 1100 miles. It blew at 867miles. I put the 25 tooth top gear back in. I have a 24 but have never tried it. Usually you would gear up with more power. I think the 174 gets to much traction and that creates to much load. The clutches can only squeeze so much. You can squeeze the primary hard but if the secondary can't hold the traction load the belt slips creating friction and BANG there goes $200. Tki belt is a tough sumbitch. Being a cogged belt. I have yet to even wound it.
Interesting Randy...Your spring choice is what I used to run with a 42-46 helix. And that was a good set up.
I went back through and read couple of times but pardon me if you said....Are you running the stock 1183 belt?
The Silber at 8lbs with a 46-32F helix and Lightening's seems to really like the 140-220 spring at our elevation with the 163 track length.
What's interesting to me is at our lower elevation's, the turbo's seem to scream right through the 125-175 spring faster than a Premier Torque Converter even with a 46-34F, 42-32F, or a 42-34F.
My wife's NA '18 Axys is using a 125-175 well but could use more spring if you want better engine braking on decal down the steeps.
I went back through and read couple of times but pardon me if you said....Are you running the stock 1183 belt?
The Silber at 8lbs with a 46-32F helix and Lightening's seems to really like the 140-220 spring at our elevation with the 163 track length.
What's interesting to me is at our lower elevation's, the turbo's seem to scream right through the 125-175 spring faster than a Premier Torque Converter even with a 46-34F, 42-32F, or a 42-34F.
My wife's NA '18 Axys is using a 125-175 well but could use more spring if you want better engine braking on decal down the steeps.
Dave. Yes I have been running the 1183 until I put the black/ yellow spring in. Since then I'm running the gates carbon belt. The pulled cord was 1183 and the 1 that blew. I'm liking the gates carbon.
The 140-220 wouldn't hold the traction extra load on the clutches from a 174.
I think premier is worse. Don't get it confused with the other PTC converters. Hahahaha.
The 140-220 wouldn't hold the traction extra load on the clutches from a 174.
I think premier is worse. Don't get it confused with the other PTC converters. Hahahaha.
That spring in the secondary will shift out pretty quick. I'm sure someone will chime in on the math to figure you final gear ratio. Like Tony stated you may be running out of gear if it's a lower ratio. Killer bottom end but no top end. Like running around town in your hotrod with 5.14 gears with a 28" tall tire.
N
Yup sounds like more things to play with. I like my PTC converter (Dusty Bradford) and 3.40 gears in the "street car" lol. Oops wrong forum! Turbos are a bad addiction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7gBaxvDYs8
I like my pro torque 5500 w/4.30. People freak out at a stop light when I put it on the brake. 2step scares the uneducated. Hahahaha. Fun on the street but very unpractical with a 890 lift mech roller. It's funny to see guys on here whine about the cost of av gas and buying a couple gals of 110. C-16 $20 a gal. Take the wife to go get a $4 coffee costs about $60.
My MTNTK sled ran best with a 100-200 spring with the 42/32f helix. 125-175 was ok but about 2/3rd's the way through the shift, the secondary could not hold the belt anymore. I tried every secondary spring made at or below the 155-222. And ride 4000-7000' in NW Montana, 2.39 gearing with the 163 2.6.
There's more and more evidence that these helixes are more sensitive to track, gearing, and snow than other setups. More traction you have (bigger track and/or more dense snow), the stiffer spring you're going to need. Which makes sense.
Your right, everything after the secondary dictates what secondary spring is needed. Gearing, track, track tension, suspension, snow conditions and others.
There is a fine line between what spring will work best for an individuals setup.
When we look at transfering the most amount power to the track efficiently and enhance belt life at the same time, a lower angle helix works. With that said the compromise is in secondary spring choice. You want to run the least amount of spring possible without compromising belt grip in the secondary. To heavy and you hinder upshift and create belt heat. To light and you will blow right through it. There are other variables that also add to the mix, NA, turbo setups, and engagement to name a few. Some turbo setups are linear in boost others are mild and then hit hard at a certain RPM. These are all things that dictate which secondary spring will work best for you.
There are many of you that understand this concept and adjust accordingly. As tuners we can offer you a package that works in many areas and help you fine tune it from there.
The feedback in this thread and all the PMs I have received will help all of us get to a final spring selection for individual setups and locals.
Thanks for all the feedback.
2017 174, boondocker sidekick on pump gas
The out of the box boondocker clutching was Okay, for the typical consumer probably just fine. I'll have to look but I want to say the 10,000'+ setup was 10-68 weights and an Almond spring with stock secondary black spring with a 40 helix.
I'm running VOHK clutching right now, Their Q1 weights with the screw removed from the tip, Almond spring, 40/44 Helix with a Black Yellow in the secondary. Pulling 8500 at 11,000'. RPM does vary a tiny bit depending on snow conditions, high load snow it will pull 8450, fluffy low load snow it will creep to 8550 or 8600 sometimes on a long pull.
Overall happy, clutch heat isn't bad at all. Working well enough that I haven't jumped into changing anything but wanting to try a couple secondary springs on either side of the Black yellow to see how it does.
The out of the box boondocker clutching was Okay, for the typical consumer probably just fine. I'll have to look but I want to say the 10,000'+ setup was 10-68 weights and an Almond spring with stock secondary black spring with a 40 helix.
I'm running VOHK clutching right now, Their Q1 weights with the screw removed from the tip, Almond spring, 40/44 Helix with a Black Yellow in the secondary. Pulling 8500 at 11,000'. RPM does vary a tiny bit depending on snow conditions, high load snow it will pull 8450, fluffy low load snow it will creep to 8550 or 8600 sometimes on a long pull.
Overall happy, clutch heat isn't bad at all. Working well enough that I haven't jumped into changing anything but wanting to try a couple secondary springs on either side of the Black yellow to see how it does.
Riding tomorrow, and if we find some good snow i'll start posting what I find, I have springs up to 320 so we will see what it likes.
Heres what we have now, runs very well with this setup at 8-9 pounds, stock gearing in chaincase, blo-hole fan, stock 174 track, 6000-7500 feet, I weight about 265 ish
primary: 10-74
Almond 165-327, 2 hard shims actual weight (checked on my valve spring compressor) 170-380 with shims
Secondary helix 44-48
180-260 black yellow, 2 delrins
8-9 pounds, 8250-8300, holds well, near zero lag, very good in trees as well as climbing, no belt issues its going to be pretty hard to get this any better with my setup, but I love to tinker with stuff so we will see
Heres what we have now, runs very well with this setup at 8-9 pounds, stock gearing in chaincase, blo-hole fan, stock 174 track, 6000-7500 feet, I weight about 265 ish
primary: 10-74
Almond 165-327, 2 hard shims actual weight (checked on my valve spring compressor) 170-380 with shims
Secondary helix 44-48
180-260 black yellow, 2 delrins
8-9 pounds, 8250-8300, holds well, near zero lag, very good in trees as well as climbing, no belt issues its going to be pretty hard to get this any better with my setup, but I love to tinker with stuff so we will see
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I tried the black / purple 160/240 in the secondary. Same initial with 40# less on the finish rate. I was up in revy in super cold sugary fluff. DEEP. I experienced belt marks at the bottom of the secondary. Nice an snappy on the bottom, pulled hard threw the mid-range an top end. On/off throttle was very responsive. Engine braking was very good also. Another thing I tried was adding 94 non eth. 2-3 gals to a tank. The bottom end throttle response picked up and the cruising sputter at 5900-6000 gone. Top end on a nice long pull it picked up 200 rpm at 6800+ elevation. I'm curious to see how it will effect things here at home. Due to over fueling. I'm going to try 50/50 this weekend. Conditions were identical day to day.. Any try a longer belt than the Gates 45C ?
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What are you going with in the end for secondary spring? 160/240 260 or 280?
I'm happy with the 160/280. If I need a little more squeeze I may throw a delrin washer or 2.
1 delrin is good for 5# on the installed ht and 15# at the finish. If I remember right. Of course it will differ with different springs.
1 delrin is good for 5# on the installed ht and 15# at the finish. If I remember right. Of course it will differ with different springs.
We have another puking coming right now. By the time I can get up there I'm sure the snow will have set up a little.
Went with this setup, a little better I think for the secondary
primary: 10-74
Blue,150-310
Secondary helix 44-48
180-280 black orange, 2 delrins
primary: 10-74
Blue,150-310
Secondary helix 44-48
180-280 black orange, 2 delrins
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A buddy had your set up in his sled. Running 12#. Belt shredder with our heavy snow. We went shallower on the Helix and now has a 180/3++
Cmx belt drive is to high geared
How much boost are you running?
Cmx belt drive is to high geared
How much boost are you running?
8-9 pounds right now, when I had my 2011 at 14 psi, I had to use the 160-300 spring with 46 finish, so yup starting to make sense, I notice venom also has a 200-325 spring now as well, after this test I may drop to the "46" side of this helix, riding today so we will see, venom also has a 160-300 titanium secondary spring, i've run this and its really nice as it does not lose pressure over time,
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Washington wet n heavy...
Black /yellow secondary.
Done.
I may try a 44-46. It seem at 48' it be ones a belt killer. If I go that route it becomes a battle between helix and spring. Keep her shallow and squeeze the chingadero.
Black /yellow secondary.
Done.
I may try a 44-46. It seem at 48' it be ones a belt killer. If I go that route it becomes a battle between helix and spring. Keep her shallow and squeeze the chingadero.
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