Where's the entertainment value in that?:noidea:
Power to Weight Ratio: Four Stoke vs. Two Stroke
- Thread starter christopher
- Start date
Where's the entertainment value in that?:noidea:
It IS possible to have an honest discussion WITHOUT bashing.
If you have taken the time to read this long thread you will see there have been PLENTY of pro comments on both sides of the discussion.
The goal here is to dispel some of the old myths and look at the reality of a changing evolving situation.
B
because you cant fix stupid:der: &as you can see there is a whole bunch of it in this thread.some people have to bash others to make themselfs feel better about what they think is right & wrong.there is no right or wrong just what works & fits for you.:face-icon-small-coo
C
Has to be turbo, but if I add my fat self into the power to weight equation.
Turbo 4stroke beats 2stroke, even turbo 2 stroke!
Stock 180 turbo 4 stroke beats 150 NA 2stroke.
270 4stroke beats 240 2stroke.
Turbo 4stroke beats 2stroke, even turbo 2 stroke!
Stock 180 turbo 4 stroke beats 150 NA 2stroke.
270 4stroke beats 240 2stroke.
Yup, many newer auto engines produce fewer pollutants per unit of volume than the air in a large city contains. Modern gasoline auto engines really are that good for emissions. Any type of recreational equipment/vehicle isn't even on the same planet as far as tech goes.
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C
You mean we have to include rider weight too? Is that with a half tank of gas and including brake fluid or no oil but including having my grip heaters on?
If I put my sled in reverse it feels lighter too.
This will be my first sled with a reverse:face-icon-small-dis now that's an upgrade!
Christopher... nice post... I'm interested in the sources and the dates for these charts you have posted.
Especially the last 3 charts.
Is this for current MY sleds or an average? (Like all the sleds visiting Yellowstone in a given year?)
Some of it seems outdated... but I could be wrong.
Especially the last 3 charts.
Is this for current MY sleds or an average? (Like all the sleds visiting Yellowstone in a given year?)
Some of it seems outdated... but I could be wrong.
The next MAJOR tightening of emissions is going to hit in 2017.
The pressure on the 2 Smokes is getting harder and harder.
Eventually the 2 Smokes ARE going to be a thing of the past.
The only question is WHEN....
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Do you have actual numbers for these from current MY Sleds from these mfgs.
I know that the 4S will be the lowest... that is a given... but curious to see the actual numbers for current MY sleds.
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G
If we talk EPA targets and futures.
Are the turbo kits installed by most Yam owners environmentally friendly? Meet EPA requirements? Could Yamaha meet EPA targets if the testing was done including % of units sold with dealer installed turbos? Is this even legal (being as I heard Yamaha endorses it and provides full warranty, could be wrong though) officially?
In reverse, could the other brands offer a reflash after sled is sold to give more power and longer living 2 stroke motor parameters and still be legal with EPA targets? Is it all based on a honour system or is there some other checks and balances?
As to the original thread topic, I wish everyone but me had to have a Yamaha Viper or it's Cat equal.
Are the turbo kits installed by most Yam owners environmentally friendly? Meet EPA requirements? Could Yamaha meet EPA targets if the testing was done including % of units sold with dealer installed turbos? Is this even legal (being as I heard Yamaha endorses it and provides full warranty, could be wrong though) officially?
In reverse, could the other brands offer a reflash after sled is sold to give more power and longer living 2 stroke motor parameters and still be legal with EPA targets? Is it all based on a honour system or is there some other checks and balances?
As to the original thread topic, I wish everyone but me had to have a Yamaha Viper or it's Cat equal.
Geo brings up a good point.
Is there any official emissions information on the turbo kit equipped Vipers?
Is there a certification for this?
As a stock Viper, how does it compare to other brands top offerings in the same track length?
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Is there any official emissions information on the turbo kit equipped Vipers?
Is there a certification for this?
As a stock Viper, how does it compare to other brands top offerings in the same track length?
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C
According to Yamaha releases the turbos are EPA compliant.
Any links on that intel?
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C
Google - EPA Yamaha Viper - and you will find numerous. They all look like they took it from the same root document. I haven't found that specific source yet.
Doesn't surprise me though as except for NOx four strokes are way better than two strokes and adding a turbo shouldn't make a 4s worse than a 2s DI motor by a long shot. Lots of compliant turbos in cars these days.
Doesn't surprise me though as except for NOx four strokes are way better than two strokes and adding a turbo shouldn't make a 4s worse than a 2s DI motor by a long shot. Lots of compliant turbos in cars these days.
Sure the oemm's might be required to meet these minimums
but how many people there crappy stock oem exhaust on a sled in the 1st place , I know I never have and never will.
but how many people there crappy stock oem exhaust on a sled in the 1st place , I know I never have and never will.
C
The announcement about the turbos being EPA compliant was from a Yamaha press release of Sept 15
But that is just the MPI 180 kit with not upgrades and dealer installed with dealer installed tuning. Any increased boost, lightweight muffler or manifold, different fuel controller, ect... And you no longer have a EPA tested compliant sled.
T
I think the EPA takes it's time getting after aftermarket suppliers. I know with trucks and cars the removal of emissions devices is where the trouble really starts. For example all of the tuners selling diesel dpf delete kits really got the hammer brought down on themselves. Many went out of business because of it.
Seeing as how there really aren't emissions devices on sleds YET I don't see them coming after aftermarket suppliers. Were the manufacturers to do something I bet that would be a different story.
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Seeing as how there really aren't emissions devices on sleds YET I don't see them coming after aftermarket suppliers. Were the manufacturers to do something I bet that would be a different story.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
C
Yes, but that's standard for just about any acceptance testing for any internal combustion engine since the 1970's. Remember when they started sealing off jet adjustments in carburetors.......
