2001 Pantera 1000 ....need some info please

Hi,
I have had this sled since 2002 but have not even started it up since my 8 year old was born......changing diapers instead of riding

Anyway clutched it in 2004 and had a lazy guy synchronise the carbs, he could only reach two and so ignored the third. I ended up melting a hole in the side of the engine.

Put in a new engine, bought from a BC guy on this site in 2004, and never rode it since. The problem was that I burnt a few belts right away as she brought up solid on any incline. Presumably the brake was half seized, the clutch was screwed up or I did something to the jackshaft bearings in my attempts to install it all by myself in my garage.

Now I want to ride again. I'm going to fix it

1) I want to put the clutches back to stock. What color are the stock springs again?

2) I installed a 1,25" ripsaw track at the time I installed the rebuilt engine. Could I have damaged the jackshaft bearings during the reinstallation process. Maybe I bent something inside the chain case.

Anyway I'm going at it until I find the problem starting with the clutches, brake rebuild, then chaincase, then take the jackshaft out to inspect the bearings if I have to.

Any info appreciated from those who know

BTW I really like my Pantera 1000! It's like a Cadillac on drugs so I want to fix it.

Let me try another way.

Can anyone steer me in a direction of a parts supplier that may still have parts in stock for a 2001 Pantera 1000 triple.

I'm having a hard time tracking down a place that even stocks parts. Lots of websites list parts, but don't stock them.

If anyone knows someone who may have a bunch of used parts for my sled in a pile somewhere, even that may be of good use if and when I need to fall back on something like this.

Names, websites, links all appreciated.
I won't torture your friends, just ask for specific parts when I find them broken as I pick at my machine.

I will try and exhaust my own googling first before I contact your friends and only use it as a last resort. Unless of course someone on here says it's okay to contact them with parts questions.

Dammn, I type too much.....can't get it out in a few simple words....SORRY !!

Thanks guys

Two more questions if I may

1) Where can I find complete gasket rebuild kits for my triple carbs? I don't have to order the pieces one by one do I.......websites I googled wants me to buy all the pieces separately.

2) Taking of the carbs I can do and have done. There must be an easier way than cursing on the air box that is in the way completely. Getting the airbox off with the carbs in place seemed impossible......without breaking something

Now I have a dilemma....leave the air box in place when eventually reinstalling the carbs and then struggling like mad to get the fuel lines reattached and the clips back onto the lines or......take off the air box and much easier and also more properly attaching the fuel lines and clips that hold them on as I can then actually get my hands in there, but then struggling like mad to try and force the darn air box back in there without ripping the carbs apart.

What am I missing here? Probably need some long nosed needle pliers, hooked needle pliers and a lot of patience and leave the air box in place.

I prefer however to use my hands as my fingers can assess better by feel if the fuel lines and clips are attached correctly.....

Thanks for the help

Primary clutch removal

Another thing....I have a plan how to remove my primary clutch without the proper bolt.

Well one of two plans....googled and modified one plan.

I saw a guy on google put his snowmobile on its side, put water in the bolt hole in the center of the primary clutch and tape the bolt thread with pipe sealant tape. Then he bolted it back on and the water pressure would pop off the clutch.

My Pantera 1000 is too heavy to put on its side by myself. Sooo, I'll buy a 20 cc syringe and some grease and inject the grease through a straw into the hole and do the rest.

or.....I saw a clutch removal bolt on ebay and the smooth part from the threaded end of the bolt to the end is 4 1/2 inches long. I can cut the head off of a 4 1/2 inch bolt and shove it nto the bolt hole and then screw the original bolt in behind it.....should also work?

I'll try the grease first, just incase the clutch refuses to pop off and I can't get the 4 1/2 inch cut off bolt out again.......that would suck

Bubba....never trust the bastard!!

Wooaa...

First off, thank you Idcatman for the info!! That is spot on......but I just read it now after frigging with the air box for the last hour.

Here is what not to do )

1) Never trust bubba!!.....getting back to explaining that in a bit.

2) Don't look at the air box from every direction and then when you figure out how to pull and twist it, STOP.....take a rest and read what someone like Idcatman has to say. I didn't stop, but grabbed pulled and rotated the box forward as it made sense.....then I brought up solid as I forgot to release the choke cable.

Now, trying to release the choke cable when the air box is 7/8 out is near impossible!! The simple reason being that now you can't get your hands in between the air box and the carbs any more and the air box simply refuses to go back down from where you just pulled it up ))
That is until you figure out that you can force your hand (while holding onto a set of needle nose pliers) from that gas tank side in under the air box towards the carbs. I used my other hand (left) to pry up on the choke on the carb closest to me and with the other hand grabbed onto the cable with the pliers and twisted out the T-bolt (or whatever you call that thing)

Anyway getting back to point number 1 and bubba. I had my sled to a "professional carb sync master" back in 2004. Never rode since as baby diapers became a priority for the past 8 years. Good thing I say because I just noticed that the drop case side carb was never even pushed into the air box properly. The rubber only covered 1/3 of it, meaning it would have run lean and I would certainly have blown this motor if I had ridden it the way I usually do. The dirt in that poor carb from sitting open like that in my garage for 8 years is unreal.

I'll pull them off and take them apart and clean and clean and clean for the next few days after work.

Again thanks for the info, nice to see I'm somewhat on the right track. Don't want to end up bubba-izing myself at the hands of my own pure ignorance. I learn fast though and I'm a perfectionist when I get going after I figure out what the right way is to do things. Second thoughts, that was just a horrible statement coming from someone who just bought a 3 3/4" gyprock anchor at Canadian Tire to use as a tool behind the primary clutch bolt to pop off the clutch.....I also bought a small tub of white grease and some thread tape sealant in case plan number one fails.

Anyway I'm starting to have fun in my new journey to fix my pantera.

Something else.....bubba had a zip tie onto the fuel line where it attaches to the carbs close to where the choke cable attaches and it was leaking fuel like mad. I saw the wet puddle under the primary clutch when I had the engine running last night and saw the fuel dripping but never thought I'd see a zip tie in there.

Not sure yet who is worse, me bubba with my plans or bubba the master carb sync'er.

I am very glad that I decided to tackle this chore.

I appreciate the help and all input as I really want to and need to learn.

:cheers:

Nice to meet you Idcatman's dad My name is James.
We're probably about the same age, I may likely be older than you as I was a pretty late starter having kids.

I appreciate you taking the time to give me some pointers as I don't know anything about snowmobiles. I'm more into muscle cars, same idea as I'm kind of a horsepower junky.....the thrill of taking off in something powerful enough to make your mind go 'Yeeeehaaaa' never gets old.

The Pantera is a little like that even though it is a 650lb rock. I remember enjoying the looks on the Rev 800 riders faces in amazement on the trails seeing this monster keep up with them. Very little bouncing around on the trails as it's just a big 'ol Cadillac. Fast forward 8 years and I'll probably be looked at in disgust due to 2 stroke oil polluting everyone around me while they're on their 4 strokes marvels.

Like I said I'm a horsepower muscle car guy, so two stroke oil, gasoline smell is stuff I like. My muscle car smokes black at idle and the fumes burn your eyes at traffic lights (side exhaust). It clears right up when you hit the gas or cruise on the highway. There is nothing like a supercharged 540ci chevy )

Thanks again!!

Carbs out and cleaned

Wow, is my first reaction. Bubba, bubba, bubba.....

Please excuse my terminology as I'm babbling away, but I don't know the correct names for lots of the parts so I call them what they look like to me. Correct me and I'll remember.

For anyone considering cleaning their carbs and deciding not to do so because they think: "Well what can go wrong in an enclosed space anyway so I don't really need to go through the hassle of taking those carbs apart and cleaning them" DON'T think twice, just DO it!! You will certainly save yourself a lot of headaches later on, especially if you had a anyone working on your machine at any given time. I don't mean to insult anyone who really know what they are doing, but it seems more don't know and pretend to know.

I don't know anything and what I found tonight blew me away!

First off, whoever worked on my machine before (it has been sitting in my heated garage for 8 years, so it was 8 and some years ago) broke off the plastic T where the fuel line from the gas tank connects to the common rail and just used a zip tie to attach the fuel line to the left over stump.

Secondly, dammmn, and dammn again....I don't think he really tried very hard to line up the gasket seal inside the cover of two of the three carbs. The crab I found inside the carbs totally blew me away. It was the size of fine grains of sand like beach sand, black and probably 30 odd spots in each carb body. I had a hard time getting at it due to the slide mechanism being in the way. In the end I used up two Canadian Tire cans of carb cleaner (acetone it smells like) and blew it out using my air compressor.....over and over again.

I'm still not completely happy with the result as I'll need a tooth brush or ten and a bowl full of acetone to soak those carbs in and brush them clean inside and out. That is probably overkill and my sled will be no garage queen. Clean on the inside will have to do for now.

I picked at the cover while gently releasing the pressure from my fingers and poking at the gasket from all sides with a screw driver until I was happy with the fit and then attached it. The third carb was fairly clean with probably less than 5 spots of grain I could see.

The float bowls were pretty clean as well. I unscrewed the 17mm nuts on the end and then took out the 6mm nuts which seem to be the jets and cleaned them using a smaller tin of carb cleaner with a straw attachment. I could not see any numbers on the jets so I don't know the sizes. Couldn't figure out where to look.

I was sizing up the needle attached to the flat slide of each carb and saw a little allen nut on the inside of the carb body above the slide mechanism which presumably attaches the needle, but didn't want to fool around with that either.

What I don't know is

1) How the heck do you adjust the slides? There is a nut with a little bowl shape and a 1/2" long? bolt right through the center of it that attaches the slide mechanism to the common fuel rail. I unscrewed that bolt but it only goes in one way and does not allow me to adjust the slide in any direction so I just screwed it back in place. I also used the throttle attachment to pull the slides all the way down so I could look at the U with ears-shaped wire attachment thingies but that also does not give me a way to adjust the slides.

Obviously I'm too stunned to figure out what to do. I'll ask here before I go frigging with it some more

2) The jet sizes?? Hehe, I probably had what wasn't the jets in my hands? ))

Talk about bubba....LOL

I'm still blown away about the dirt I found inside those carbs. Oh and close your eyes when you use that straw carb cleaner attachment thingy to spray the jet housing where it attaches inside the carb.....it blows right back into your face and eyes.....and burns like hell ))

Carb expedition continued

Figured out some stuff....

The jet I unscrewed was the main jet. I know this because it's the only jet with a metal gasket. Still don't see the size number.

The other jets I didn't see yet, because it seems I have to take off the float chamber cover to get at them. Them being the Starter Jet and the longer Pilot Jet.

Presumably I have to clean them out as well with carb cleaner and compressed air?

Do I really Have to take out the jet needle in order to clean it or can I just liberally spray it and blow compressed air at it a few times....I don't really want to pick that mechanism apart.....seeing it's the first time I ever opened a carb.....

I still can't figure out the slider adjustment. I will go on a googling spree after work if I don't get the answer from here

Just thought of something else.....there is just one screw holding the float chamber cover on?? that seems weird for such a big cover unless I'm missing something.


UPDATE:

Stupid question on my part.....float bowl cover definitely has to come off to take all 3 jets per carb out and clean them all properly!!
That is pretty important otherwise you defeat the whole purpose of taking the carbs off....just learnt that.

Still not sure about adjusting the slides. From what I read round slide carbs each have its own throttle cable. My rack style flat slide carbs have a communal throttle linkage operated by one cable so there doesn't seem to be slide adjustments other than the A/F mixture screw and pilot screw. I'll search more on that.

Float boal gasket stretched.....what now?

Just as the title.
I took off the float bowl covers and luckily for me only removed one gasket off of one of the three covers. It had yellow gunk in the groove where the gasket sits. I now presume someone used some type of glue to keep the gasket in the groove of the cover.

Anyway I didn't like the look of the gunk and tried to clean it with a cloth after liberally spraying carb cleaner all over it. It didn't work and just turned the cloth black. I then went ahead and gently pulled the gasket all the way out in order to clean the groove that the gasket lies in properly and also clean off the gasket. The glue is really hard to remove from the gasket as it is kind of elasticky and sticks to the gasket like a willnot to arse hairs

In the end the gasket stretched presumably from the carb cleaner as I definitely did not stretch it by pulling on it. I was really carful not to do that. It refuses to fit back into that groove....

Question is what now?? My options as I see it.

1) Try to dry it off and see if it shrinks....maybe a hair drier
2) Buy some glue and gently glue it back in, working from one end all the way around all the while forcefully shrink jamming it in place little by little. The glue is almost like the stuff they used years ago on patches when people still patched bicycle tire tubes that were punctured. Is there a special glue available maybe at Canadian Tire for this type of carb application or was it bubba at work?
3) Buy another darn gasket.

Carbs, air box etc cleaned and put back together

Cleaned as above, she fired up right nice and sounds great.

I pulled of all the float bowl gaskets afterwards and cleaned them up with a goo gone type thing. I also cleaned out the grooves where they lie in with toothpicks.

The air box.....what a mess of gunked up rubber from previously burnt belts. I suspect it is the primary clutch that is stuck and burning up belts.

I cut off a 1 1/4" bolt and superglued it to the end of the bolt that holds the primary clutch in place. I measure the space from the end of the clutch shaft to where a long screw driver brings up solid when you stick it in the hole and it was 7 1/2". The primary clutch bolt itself measures 6".

Considering that the bolt needs to bite a bit I cut the extra piece 1 1/4" or close to that. I inserted my bubba'd bolt into the hole and started screwing it in just to realize that the damn 1/4" drive driven 1/2" 12point bit socket is too fat to drive it in far enough. I need 1/4" to 1/2" of movement to pop off that clutch.

Going torturing friends or buying a 1/4" drive 12 point socket now. Just not sure if a 1/4 drive will hold up to the pressure I intend to put on the driver. I'll probably have to get a 1/4" solid bar and not use a ratchet


Ummm....
Before someone asks how I got the bolt on or off before.....I used a 6 point 14mm socket. In order to pop the clutch off though you need to put a lot of pressure on the socket and the 6 point 14mm slips

I'm SCREWED.....

I just made one helluva mess for myself!!!
One that I have absolutely no idea what to do next.

Went and bought a set of deep socket 12 point sockets, came home right happy because the primary clutch is coming off.

I then went ahead and screwed myself completely and utterly as I proceeded to break the darn primary clutch bolt off on the inside.

Yep, I broke it off just behind the threaded area.

I guess now I need a couple of 2x4s between the primary clutch and the engine and some leverage and some help with a sledge to get that clutch off. Even if I break the clutch itself, it has to come off now.....

dammmmmn


Update:
The bolt broke off about 3 1/2" from the nut side on a bolt that is a total of 6" long.
I took a look into the center shaft of the primary clutch and can see the bolt in there where it broke of. It is a clean break and should be able to get a drillbit into it. I wonder whether anyone knows of a tool that can go over the shaft of the broken off stub of the bolt like a socket style and then twist tight like a Japanese type puzzle and unscrew it that way? There is space between the bolt and the shaft of the primary clutch if such a tool exists. Otherwise I have to come up with a deep socket that will inside the shaft
of the primary clutch and then act as a guide for a drill bit to drill into the broken off bolt. A reverse drill may then get the bolt out pending how much I have it torqued on inside there. The last thing I need now is to break off a reverse drill bit inside that shaft....

Broken in half primary clutch bolt

The bolt broke off 3 1/4" from the nut side which leaves about 2 3/4" attached to the crank. I'm not sure how far the primary clutch's shaft grooves reach but the left over bolt stump is protruding outwards.
This means that it at least overlaps but most likely completely covers the grooves of the primary clutch's shaft. Therefore I doubt that I can get a 9/16 fine thread bolt screwed in at all after I fill the shaft with water/oil/grease whatever.

Hope what I type makes sense.

An EZ out may break as I try to unscrew the bolt because it needs to be at least 4 inches long which will put a lot of strain on the EZ out.

I need another way to get that primary clutch off.....last resort is an angle grinder.....

Update::
I am blind!! There is actually a beam of light at the end of the tunnel. I just went for another better look at the inside of the primary clutch shaft and found
that the threads go to an inch of the outside. I should easily be able to thread a 9/16" bolt in there. I can either jam it onto the broken off clutch bolt or like you said tip the snowmobile on its side and fill the shaft with water and tape the 9/16" bolt with plumbers tape and let the hydraulic pressure do the work. Getting that 1000 Pantera on its side by myself is another story. I have a cherry picker in my garage and can try to tie a rope to the left side ski post and jack it up I guess. A 30-45 degree angle would probably be sufficient. Wow, I can't tell you how happy I was when I discovered those threads. What is that thread called for bolt buying purposes....standard fine, fine, fine fine??

Confusing to read stuff.....thread standard
1)ISO (International Organization of Standardization)
2)ANS (American National Standard)
3)UTS (Unified Thread Standard)....this is apparently the dominant thread type in The USA and Canada

So which do I need ....lol....probably UNF (United Fine) and referred to as National Fine (NF) in retailing and this is actually the UTS standard......damn
Could be I need UNEF (United Extra Fine) also a UTS standard

The 1/4" cobalt drill bit that I bought for the EZ out won't work anyway as I can't get it deep enough into the shaft when attached to a drill. I stuck the bit into the shaft and when it hits the broken off bolt there is barely an inch at most but probably less stuck out on the outside of the shaft.

Bolt to thread into primary clutch (not into crank)

Grade 8 strength 9/16" -18 UNF (in other words UTS National Fine)

I will confirm this once I find that this is correct....