09 T-XP. Won't idle, at a loss

PJ-Hunter · Feb 27, 2013

1. Checked reeds. They are fine
2. Checked compression. 120psi on both cylinders. At 7800' elevation thats a good number
3. Cleaned pilot circuit, getting fuel. Plugs are wet when I check them

It'll start and just lug, when I touch the throttle, it dies. If I 1/2 choke it, it will run but the EGTs are not even close. It started out being the PTO side running cold and the mag side hot. Now the mag side is cold and the PTO side is hot. Can't check the fuel pressure on the regulator because it won't idle.

Thing is, Saturday it started out running great as usual. Then after about 20 miles, it just started running rough and I'd have to feather it to keep it going. Now it just won't go. I'm not leaking fuel anywhere and the rubber boots are in good shape, no cracks. So I checked everything that I knew. Boots, reeds, pilot. Needles looked fine.

Only thing I can think of is that it may be misfiring or not firing right at all. Check engine light is not on.

Now, can the coil fail at an instant or is it progressive? In my experience an electrical issue is pretty quick. But I don't know. Totall stumped.
I hooked the plugs to the wires and had the wife pull the rope and I got spark, on both plugs. Is it a good spark? I don't know, knocked me on my as$ when I slipped and the wife kept pulling the rope.

What else can I check? I replaced the plug wires last season. Maybe the connection isn't as good?

Please help. I have a trip coming up and If I can't make it I'm gonna go nutz.

whitefish · Feb 27, 2013

Start with the cheap and easy. New plugs.
Maybe look at the floats and make sure they are floating.

Spaarky · Feb 27, 2013

Can't check the fuel pressure on the regulator because it won't idle.

Get a 12v battery and run jumper wires to the fuel pump.

I am not a Doo guy... but the Poo's have some safety switches in the throttles, do you have something like that. They can give you fits? Kill switch issue?

yes, a coil can act that way.

gus bohne · Feb 28, 2013

sit down P J.

when a doo does this it most likely is the cneter seal or both center crank seals that have failed. check for oil in your pill bottle, has it gone down. is it in need of refilling ?

when ALL else checks out correct, that is where the problem lies. especially when it jumps from side to side. the oil in the cavity is being drawn out and you get an air leak between cyls.

crank weakness and design flaws plague the R family to this day. see doo clininc is *** deep in R cranks in repair.

PJ-Hunter · Feb 28, 2013

gus bohne said:
sit down P J.

when a doo does this it most likely is the cneter seal or both center crank seals that have failed. check for oil in your pill bottle, has it gone down. is it in need of refilling ?

when ALL else checks out correct, that is where the problem lies. especially when it jumps from side to side. the oil in the cavity is being drawn out and you get an air leak between cyls.

crank weakness and design flaws plague the R family to this day. see doo clininc is *** deep in R cranks in repair.

Changed plugs. Still the same problem.

There is no switch in the throttle. I did have a kill switch problem with the two wires sliding out of the harness. That has been fixed.

The oil in the pill bottle is full.

I had a new crank put in at the dealer a season and a half ago. Not sure of the mileage at the time. I can call them when they open and find that out.

Is there an easy way to check the coil? That's a $40 part. If it's not that then the crank seals make sense. I'm assuming that I can just order up the crank seals and have a party? Wonderful. ARGH!!!

PJ-Hunter · Feb 28, 2013

So, asking around here to some guys that went to MMI and after giving them the full rundown, first thing they asked is "Have you blown a belt recently"?

Why yes, 3 rides ago. I grenaded that damn thing HARD! All that was left was quarter size rubber chunks and strings. I killed the sled immediately before it even hit the Rev limiter. So, I guess the cord can wrap around the crank and after a few rides, can work itself into the PTO side crank seal.

So now, I gotta find someone who stocks seals. Prolly not a bad idea to just replace all the seals anyways, given that it's boosted.

Gus, that sound like something?

What about a leaky needle seat?

summit800 · Feb 28, 2013

clutch side is easy to change with out pulling motor, stator side is a job!

winter brew · Feb 28, 2013

so it idles with the choke on....not getting enough fuel or getting too much air. Maybe do a pressure check of the whole engine? Fuel pressure with a battery?

swrev · Feb 28, 2013

Major split in the pipe possibly. I had a about a 10'' split in mine, made idle rough, had to choke to start and keep running, and tough to transition into rpm. When it would run, egts were all over the place especially at lower rpm. It would build into rpm, it would level out, just hard a hard time building boost. As the crack got bigger, the worse it got.

The only other time I had some wierd running issues, is when a line of the air box had come loose. It looked like the line was on, but was basically floating on the barb nipple.

swrev · Feb 28, 2013

Reread your original post. It really sounds like what happened to mine when lines from carb to air box were giving me problems. Double check both ends and inspect for holes or a kink. I did the same thing as far as what you checked all ready, installed new lines and it has ran great ever since.

PJ-Hunter · Feb 28, 2013

It idles with the choke but poorly. When it dies and I pull the plugs, they are wet, not dry so that leads me to believe that it's getting fuel.

And the fact that the change was damn near instantaneous, not progressive baffles me.

PJ-Hunter · Feb 28, 2013

I don't know if the pipe has a crack or not. It's wrapped pretty tight with header wrap. The exhaust still comes out the tunnel dump and no exhaust smoke is coming from my pipe.

I never checked the little hoses from the carb to the airbox. They are pretty tough looking hoses but I will inspect them tonight.

With the blown belt I'm starting to think that may actually be the issue. It is pretty damn coincidental

brycter · Feb 28, 2013

crank seals are common with you explanation. things i always also check are. blown bellows, blown intake boots, and rave valve hoses/check vales coming off the crank.

you have a air leak somewhere and by running your choke 1/2 on you are filling the leak with fuel so it can run a bit...:face-icon-small-ton

PJ-Hunter · Feb 28, 2013

brycter said:
crank seals are common with you explanation. things i always also check are. blown bellows, blown intake boots, and rave valve hoses/check vales coming off the crank.

you have a air leak somewhere and by running your choke 1/2 on you are filling the leak with fuel so it can run a bit...:face-icon-small-ton

So to check the bellows I can just pull the RAVE cap off and look at them, right?

Carb intake boots and reed boots look good.

Never even thought about the hoses from crank to RAVE.

Thanks for the advice. I'm sick to my stomach right now. It's like I have a sick child and the mystery is keeping me awake. I wanna walk out from work right now to go check all of these.

swrev · Feb 28, 2013

Hey PJ, if you blew off the belows and need a pressure relief valve, I've got an extra I can send right away. Just pm your address if you want it. We'll work out the details later. They're only about $25.

PJ-Hunter · Feb 28, 2013

PM Sent.

gus bohne · Feb 28, 2013

center seals is a full crank rebuild they are the first pieces assembeled during the first press.

you blew a belt, it shocked the cneter seals and popped the springs off, they chew the plastic drive gear for the waterpump and oil pump.. take it apart now before its a fire sale PJ. Until you either take it apart or do a pressure test/leak down your rolling the dice and those dice are all snake eyes man.

PJ-Hunter · Feb 28, 2013

gus bohne said:
center seals is a full crank rebuild they are the first pieces assembeled during the first press.

you blew a belt, it shocked the cneter seals and popped the springs off, they chew the plastic drive gear for the waterpump and oil pump.. take it apart now before its a fire sale PJ. Until you either take it apart or do a pressure test/leak down your rolling the dice and those dice are all snake eyes man.

I don't have an oil pump if that says anything. I premix.

Either way, I have to crack it open to replace the end seals so....

Looks like someone is buying a new sled. Don't have time to haggle with someone who has a ready to go crank.

PJ-Hunter · Feb 28, 2013

Decided to just take it back to the builder. Bellows are fine.

Just want to make sure. He thinks it should be an easy diagnosis and fix. I'm hoping for better news than what Gus thinks. Cause that wouldn't make me happy happy happy.

PJ-Hunter · Mar 1, 2013

OK. That was easy. Just needed a fresh set of eyes that cost $85/hr

After all that I'm so glad I didn't crack the case open. Turned out to be a crack in the intake boot that I missed. Hard part was that nobody in Colorado had one. So had to overnight one from BRP. I'll be riding again next weekend. This weekend I get to sit at home and do nothing. Joy.

09 T-XP. Won't idle, at a loss

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