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Preliminary Review of the Full Jaws pipe setup for the "18"

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ranger12

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"Review" of the Full Jaws pipe setup for the "18"

I installed the full jaws setup on a sled with some recommended clutching and a PCV with a map provided by the manufacturer. (Remember this map was based off Dyno runs at 1000' or so like most companies that design for a broad range of elevations) This was on a early build 18 that is fully out of the break in mode. When I took the sled out for its first test ride it couldn't hardly get out of its own way above a certain rpm. I knew it wasn't cluthching related at this point so I went back to the trailer to look at the map and sure enough every where there was fuel added in the PCV it had a noticeable stumble and then couldn't get past a certain RPM. I knocked down the numbers in the PCV and took it for another test ride and everything improved significantly, but still wasn't quite right after several attempts of decreasing the added fuel. So with having almost nothing for added fuel left in the map I decided to make everything a zero and make a short run. It ran almost spotless and pulled really hard almost to the companies recommendation. I stopped to check the plugs and they looked perfect. After several pulls I noticed a slight hesitation or bog going from full throttle to about half throttle and then to wide open. At this point I could smell my belt and took my sidepanel off and both of the clutches and the belt were very hot. Back to the trailer I went to figure out the cluthching issue. I left everything identical except for the weights I had in it and swithed to a different style. With the other weights in it the bog or hesitation was absolutely gone and I was actually very close to the target RPM with normal clutch temperatures. I added some more weight to the arms and it settled in at a solid 8500 RPM. This setup would almost go immediately to 8450-8500 and just peg it there no matter what the conditions were.


I was only able to test for about half a day with this setup but there will be more refining done to it in a short while. I will definitely try adding some more weight and probably try a more vast elevation range than what I was at. The only tuning means I had on this tuning trip was to read the plugs and look at the wash and everything looked perfect according to how everything looked with a fully stock setup.


I didn't ride this setup under 8000' according to the Cat display. Most of the actual testing was between 9250' and 9750 for the time being. I did add a gallon of Race Fuel to the tank for insurance though.
 
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ranger12

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Final Review of the Jaws Big Shark setup

Tested this pipe setup for several days and it does need a fuel controller. This is one impressive pipe setup on the 18!! I didn't think I lost any bottom end or midrange pull. Actually you don't notice anything different until around the midrange and then the farther you get into the rpms the harder it pulls. I tested this setup up to a little over 10K and it never disappointed me at all.


If anybody is thinking about putting a Jaws Big Shark setup on an 18 message me and I will help you out. I have a map and the clutching dialed in for 8K to around 10K.


Proven 14 HP increase with this setup and you can definitely feel it!!!
 
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C
Jan 13, 2018
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Same story at low elevation

Just installed full set up, with supplied pcv map. And ran 73g as directed. Sled pulled the 8400 as suggested but wouldn't hold the power. Flat spots up and occasional bog. Dyno appointment Thursday to straighten this out and try some timing advancements. I will post my findings I'm glad to hear others had same issue. I was thinking I should have just left stock as it pulled harder stock! We will see with mapping dialed next week if I can get a smile back on my face.

I hope I don't find out that I didn't need weights and PCV for $600
 
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ranger12

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Just installed full set up, with supplied pcv map. And ran 73g as directed. Sled pulled the 8400 as suggested but wouldn't hold the power. Flat spots up and occasional bog. Dyno appointment Thursday to straighten this out and try some timing advancements. I will post my findings I'm glad to hear others had same issue. I was thinking I should have just left stock as it pulled harder stock! We will see with mapping dialed next week if I can get a smile back on my face.

I hope I don't find out that I didn't need weights and PCV for $600



There is too much fuel in the supplied PCV map. Mine wouldn't run worth a darn with the supplied map and if you don't have your clutching right it will emphasize the rich condition of the map. You will get the flat spots and not get your full rpms or it will fall off on rpms wide open. The other thing that will happen is when you are at full rpms and let off the throttle and get back on it, it will stumble.
 

ranger12

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Dyno Tech dyno results

Dyno Tech just finished up a dyno session on a 18 C-TECH 800 with the full Jaw's setup on it. The only difference from what I have previously posted is this sled had a trail can on it, whereas the one I was testing had the race can on it.
Dyno Tech saw results of a 15 HP increase. He stated that he has only seen this much increase one other time and it was on an old Phazer with a Aaeen pipe.
I have had quite a few sleds with almost everything you can think of done to them. It was clear to me that for just having added a pipe setup and a fuel controller, just a few bolt on parts, this was something special. I would copy and paste his exact results but he asked that I not do that.

He also stated that there has been a 10 HP difference between the early build sleds and the production sleds that he has dynoed.
 

Old & slow

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Dyno Tech just finished up a dyno session on a 18 C-TECH 800 with the full Jaw's setup on it. The only difference from what I have previously posted is this sled had a trail can on it, whereas the one I was testing had the race can on it.
Dyno Tech saw results of a 15 HP increase. He stated that he has only seen this much increase one other time and it was on an old Phazer with a Aaeen pipe.
I have had quite a few sleds with almost everything you can think of done to them. It was clear to me that for just having added a pipe setup and a fuel controller, just a few bolt on parts, this was something special. I would copy and paste his exact results but he asked that I not do that.

He also stated that there has been a 10 HP difference between the early build sleds and the production sleds that he has dynoed.

10 hp which one has more?
 

ranger12

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Is it the same ~15hp gain on both the early build and production models?


Water

Jaw's did their testing on a early build and saw a 14 HP increase by just adding fuel to the map.
Dyno Tech did their test on a production model and saw a 15 HP increase by adding fuel and timing.
I would think if you would add timing to a early release with a full Jaw's setup it would be quite a bit more than 14 HP.
I have a fuel controller on the way with the timing option on it. I will put it on the early release that I have been testing on and see how much of a difference it will make.
 

DDECKER

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Does that mean we lose 10 hp when we go in to get our early release sleds flashed per the Arctic cat bulletin?
face-icon-small-wink.gif
 

ranger12

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Does that mean we lose 10 hp when we go in to get our early release sleds flashed per the Arctic cat bulletin?

I had one of my early builds reflashed and I didn't notice any power loss.
I did notice after the reflash that my sled hunts around at idle now and will almost always die once when putting it in reverse now.
Dyno Tech stated it could be due to a little bit different pipe or a different compression ratio. I do know that there is a difference in mapping on a PCV when adding go fast parts between a early build and a production model.
 

Griff

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Does that mean we lose 10 hp when we go in to get our early release sleds flashed per the Arctic cat bulletin?

Just a comment, if you have something that runs great and you are happy with it....don't let the dealer or manufacturer change it.


Starting to follow the Ascender forums...hoping to come back to Cat one of these days. Good info on this pipe so far. Thanks everyone.
 
C
Jan 13, 2018
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Jaws

Few thoughts from dyno, the fuel only map provided from jaws made 156hp on my post production sled. I installed an ECU from unflashed pre production and only made 148. Keep in mind this was not with matched injector numbers as we would have to flash to update them. I have seen nothing but Tim Ferrys sled dyno at 160 stock. We could have pushed to 170 with the jaws setup just not safe for trail. My opinion riding with this setup is its animal in the open. Tight trails and knowing how responsive it can be 8100-8500 makes me beg for some more mid torque. It's feels more like 2stroke dirt bike when your in the power band it's night & day.
 
C
Jan 13, 2018
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Be careful, there is a reason that pre production made more power, and still only 1 sled that's made 10hp more. Point is the pre production will require a different recipe for max power using timing. It may already have timing advancements
 

Stack

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I had one of my early builds reflashed and I didn't notice any power loss.
I did notice after the reflash that my sled hunts around at idle now and will almost always die once when putting it in reverse now.
Dyno Tech stated it could be due to a little bit different pipe or a different compression ratio. I do know that there is a difference in mapping on a PCV when adding go fast parts between a early build and a production model.

My sled has been running Very well in my opinion, so I have held off on the new map. I heard it was to clean up the bottom end, so it’s ironic that you are seeing those issues around idle. I might wait a bit longer yet, I would love to see a ER on the dyno before and after the new map.

I’m a bit perplexed that the Regular season released sleds would be down to 150 HP Range (warranty bean counters?), the Motor is still a beast down low and mid and I love the linear TQ/HP vs my Zuke. Put it this way, I haven’t heard anyone complain about the power, at least the Mtn guys. But when you see the dyno #’s I’m like??? Cat needs to get that figured out, people get a little tired of those games, and the changes cat does from what you Spring order versus what you actually receive. I know “Subject to Change” right Cat?
 

Vertical-Extreme

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My sled has been running Very well in my opinion, so I have held off on the new map. I heard it was to clean up the bottom end, so it’s ironic that you are seeing those issues around idle. I might wait a bit longer yet, I would love to see a ER on the dyno before and after the new map.

I’m a bit perplexed that the Regular season released sleds would be down to 150 HP Range (warranty bean counters?), the Motor is still a beast down low and mid and I love the linear TQ/HP vs my Zuke. Put it this way, I haven’t heard anyone complain about the power, at least the Mtn guys. But when you see the dyno #’s I’m like??? Cat needs to get that figured out, people get a little tired of those games, and the changes cat does from what you Spring order versus what you actually receive. I know “Subject to Change” right Cat?
If these sleds are only "150" hp then this is the strongest 150 hp I have ever been on.... This would also mean the new pro, old zuke and pre 850 Doo we're no more than 140...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 
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rbanan

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Accel pump on the PCV

Is anyone usning this feature? i would like to lean out my lower register without getting the bogs when you hit the throttle fast.

getting kinda low milage right now.
 
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