C
I have the same set up and haven't rode it yet. Good to know its workin good
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk when I should be checkin wells!
MDS just off the dyno with 2012 162
- Thread starter MDS
- Start date
I have the same set up and haven't rode it yet. Good to know its workin good
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk when I should be checkin wells!
So without getting everyone who's bought these weights to jump up and down at me.....let me go back to the first page and ask the questions again.....
The machine in question was strapped to a trackdyno at one point. That much we can establish, the machine netted a 10hp gain swapping weights.
-How was the dyno loaded? Was it loaded via the brake?
-Were any other changes made to the clutching set-up? What were they?
-Was a backshift test done? Very standard test when operating a trackdyno to check results as many of folks(including myself) have realized that trackdynos show more HP with more primary weight......increase the weight and HP increases to ridiculous levels if not kept in check with a backshift test(again, performed with the dyno)
I could care less about the money back warranty, about what customers experienced in other sleds, or how much or how little the owner of MDS knows.....what I care about is the numbers from the dyno. Not because dyno's win races(all you smartasses can stop thinking of witty one liners about dynos and real world results right about now. I want to know if these guys can actually run a dyno properly or simply use it to establish HP numbers and then clutch completely different for the hills.)
If you know how to run a trackdyno, you would know that ambient temp, elevation, and load on motor can all be controlled. For example I was set-up to simulate zero degrees Celcius, 5000ft, and climbing roughly a 35deg slope. (Controlled via a dedicated room built for dyno use)
Reason I know this is not a mathematical formula(well there was a few equations used
), I actually TRIED it! And it worked, I mean the sled actually performed like it did in the shop....amazing stuff.....:face-icon-small-sho
What were the procedures used when testing units for HP gains?
I hope we've crawled out of our Lemming uniforms and dare to ask such questions before buying.....I mean, I don't spend my money on something because someone told me so....I do it because it makes sense.....and so far the "claim" is bogus.....and the "proof"(Oh I know it's coming) is nothing but a bunch of guys that "think" the weights made a difference.
The only reason I keep bringing this up is because it intrigues me.....as a matter of fact I showed my father various pictures "geo" was so kind as to post in a previous thread and he laughed....we went out to the shop and he pointed at his '78 SuperMod with a Comet clutch(not stock) and dared me to find a difference in profile to what they did more than 25 years ago. Now a lightbulb went off in his head about why the theory would work in mountain sleds......now he wants a set to try as well......but until someone can answer my questions, I'm not sending a penny MDS' way.
This thread has little credibility(again, guys that have bought from MDS, settle down, sit back, and look at what we have been presented) A claim is no supporting evidence, and very happy customers that have owned and used these weights for sometime. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discredit anyone....but there are still 900RMK owners that think they bought a good sled.....can the same principle apply here?
I mean, I've seen guys think their new sled is kingsht before a older model comes and works them hard.......somehow that guy is still on Snowest come Monday morning claiming his sled is the best thing going......Now he may have a well set-up sled, but is it really that good?
Little story about a DooTalk ride last winter.
I was not apart of the ride, everytime we would pull up, they would be heading out. Maybe it was the lack of me knowing anyone, maybe it was the 2 Cats we had with us. Either way.......not one mark that was put on ANY hill that day by that group was impressive. That's right, you heard me. Not impressed at all. Brand new Etecs, modded RT's, Nitrous 800R's all claiming to be the king of the pile.....problem is, that pile is of rather sad performing sleds........my '06 Summit X with a 150CE outclimbed everyone of their marks that day. Save for TSS Dave's Etec 174 CF chassis, but I dealt with him via a M-Series Cutler 1 Liter. Off track.....point is, I don't claim that my sled is the best or I have the greatest set-up, I claim that my sled "works". It doesn't blow me away with performance, it doesn't rip my arms out of my sockets, it just does what I expect a 160hp sled to do. So when I hear that a brand of weights is a miracle drug to the sledding world, and people are backing that claim with experience.....I gotta wonder just how well do some of these sleds actually run? From my conversations on Dootalk and with friends, I woulda thought this RT1000 MONSTER was going to impress the hell outta me......when in fact I was more ashamed to see it perform so mediocre and then read the next week that everyone was so impressed with it.
Flame on boys, I'm ready for it.
The machine in question was strapped to a trackdyno at one point. That much we can establish, the machine netted a 10hp gain swapping weights.
-How was the dyno loaded? Was it loaded via the brake?
-Were any other changes made to the clutching set-up? What were they?
-Was a backshift test done? Very standard test when operating a trackdyno to check results as many of folks(including myself) have realized that trackdynos show more HP with more primary weight......increase the weight and HP increases to ridiculous levels if not kept in check with a backshift test(again, performed with the dyno)
I could care less about the money back warranty, about what customers experienced in other sleds, or how much or how little the owner of MDS knows.....what I care about is the numbers from the dyno. Not because dyno's win races(all you smartasses can stop thinking of witty one liners about dynos and real world results right about now. I want to know if these guys can actually run a dyno properly or simply use it to establish HP numbers and then clutch completely different for the hills.)
If you know how to run a trackdyno, you would know that ambient temp, elevation, and load on motor can all be controlled. For example I was set-up to simulate zero degrees Celcius, 5000ft, and climbing roughly a 35deg slope. (Controlled via a dedicated room built for dyno use)
Reason I know this is not a mathematical formula(well there was a few equations used
), I actually TRIED it! And it worked, I mean the sled actually performed like it did in the shop....amazing stuff.....:face-icon-small-shoWhat were the procedures used when testing units for HP gains?
I hope we've crawled out of our Lemming uniforms and dare to ask such questions before buying.....I mean, I don't spend my money on something because someone told me so....I do it because it makes sense.....and so far the "claim" is bogus.....and the "proof"(Oh I know it's coming) is nothing but a bunch of guys that "think" the weights made a difference.
The only reason I keep bringing this up is because it intrigues me.....as a matter of fact I showed my father various pictures "geo" was so kind as to post in a previous thread and he laughed....we went out to the shop and he pointed at his '78 SuperMod with a Comet clutch(not stock) and dared me to find a difference in profile to what they did more than 25 years ago. Now a lightbulb went off in his head about why the theory would work in mountain sleds......now he wants a set to try as well......but until someone can answer my questions, I'm not sending a penny MDS' way.
This thread has little credibility(again, guys that have bought from MDS, settle down, sit back, and look at what we have been presented) A claim is no supporting evidence, and very happy customers that have owned and used these weights for sometime. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discredit anyone....but there are still 900RMK owners that think they bought a good sled.....can the same principle apply here?
I mean, I've seen guys think their new sled is kingsht before a older model comes and works them hard.......somehow that guy is still on Snowest come Monday morning claiming his sled is the best thing going......Now he may have a well set-up sled, but is it really that good?
Little story about a DooTalk ride last winter.
I was not apart of the ride, everytime we would pull up, they would be heading out. Maybe it was the lack of me knowing anyone, maybe it was the 2 Cats we had with us. Either way.......not one mark that was put on ANY hill that day by that group was impressive. That's right, you heard me. Not impressed at all. Brand new Etecs, modded RT's, Nitrous 800R's all claiming to be the king of the pile.....problem is, that pile is of rather sad performing sleds........my '06 Summit X with a 150CE outclimbed everyone of their marks that day. Save for TSS Dave's Etec 174 CF chassis, but I dealt with him via a M-Series Cutler 1 Liter. Off track.....point is, I don't claim that my sled is the best or I have the greatest set-up, I claim that my sled "works". It doesn't blow me away with performance, it doesn't rip my arms out of my sockets, it just does what I expect a 160hp sled to do. So when I hear that a brand of weights is a miracle drug to the sledding world, and people are backing that claim with experience.....I gotta wonder just how well do some of these sleds actually run? From my conversations on Dootalk and with friends, I woulda thought this RT1000 MONSTER was going to impress the hell outta me......when in fact I was more ashamed to see it perform so mediocre and then read the next week that everyone was so impressed with it.
Flame on boys, I'm ready for it.
Last edited:
G
Here's an Idea. Instead of bitching that no one has the info you need, why don't you just call MDS and talk to them, your conversation will probably take less time then your mile long post. Then you can come on here and tell everyone exactly how it is.
M
I think I can see where your coming from Reeb. Kind of a, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", type thing.
If there really is a money back guarantee, I don't see any reason not to try them. Even if a guy is out the minor shipping cost to return them. I've wasted more money on other items I wanted to test out with my setup.
When I return to Canada in Feb, I might give these a whirl. Until then, I'm diving in Bali. Funny thing though....all I can think about at the bottom of the ocean is sledding.
Ride safe fellas!!!
If there really is a money back guarantee, I don't see any reason not to try them. Even if a guy is out the minor shipping cost to return them. I've wasted more money on other items I wanted to test out with my setup.
When I return to Canada in Feb, I might give these a whirl. Until then, I'm diving in Bali. Funny thing though....all I can think about at the bottom of the ocean is sledding.
Ride safe fellas!!!
G
Your Dad is right Reeb. Nothing is ever really new. If you are old enough (what was your age in '78 again?) you can say you've seen that before. And, to have a '78 supermod with one-of-specific-to-the-sled weights to actually point to and prove that is cool.
One thing to note (and you should be more respectful of your dad), He saw and remembered. There is a benefits from this design for mountians or supermod. He'll phone, he'll try them and make his evaluation for himself without all internet Bally HOO.
I don't know if you remember but he knows a thing or two about track dynos also.
I respect that.
You don't have to go back that far to see the same engineering in clutch weights. Early 90's Performance Yamaha weights (Exciters and V-max's) are very similar. That was when Yamaha still allowed their snowmobile engineers some room for passion not just profit.
The reason we didn't see this continue in any brand is production and development costs. It is simply cheaper to come up with a generic profile for every machine you make and just cast them thicker or thinner for the HP you stick into the chassis.
The other adjust-a-weight kits are really the same, one size (profile) fits all. If you pick the right profile you hit the money. If you didn't, you can move the weight around all you want and try different springs and total mass changes, but you still won't have a total shift "kit".
You can attack your shift from the secondary. Usually these "kits" come with multi-angle helixs and-or spring adjustments. But, these changes will force you to "adjust for conditions" and even "rider skill" I've been told and experienced.
Don't get me wrong. There is some to be gained from a stock secondary but only with the cost of more maintenance, especially with stock weights. The needs for a secondary to sense the torque required is more based on chassis design, weight, and track thus easier for the manufacterer to get generically correct. Rider skill shouldn't be in the equation.
Clutching seems simple since I got MDS weights, I like a single angle helix to keep my torque-sensing the same at any MPH and pick the lightest spring that will keep my backshift and grip with an clean system. Stock has been pretty close.
Secondary design? Whole different thread.
MDS designs and builds weights. No they didn't re-invent the wheel. They developed on the track dyno a weight profile and weight balance for the AC primary and the 800 motor using a single angle helix and to be used in the mountians. They adapted this for the M1000. They also developed a turbo specific weight and a Poo pro weight.
MDS doesn't make or machine anything else. This is their sole product. The money back offer may not mean anything to you Reeb, but you have to agree it is a bold move in this industry. Don't see that too often (if ever). I actually thought last year that would be their demise exactly because of something you pointed out.
Some people think they have everything because of parts or "kits" they have installed, but really may be very short of total performance. Funny, but the opposite is also true in this sport. If your track is humming and your sled is pulling at 7900 why do you think pulling 8300 will improve performance? "Cause somebody told you?
Only way to know is watch the speedo and very few do.
So,,, after over a season with the money back offer, 1000,s of weights sold throughout the world, their only product, and they are still in business and doing fine??? That has to say something to you. Doesn't it?
It's not just the weights or the noticable gains in this sport, it's also about the after sales support. Steve's the best.
The flame; Reeb, you've spewed on here a few times about your track dyno experience blah,blah,blah, and your need to know more specific info for proof, blah, blah, blah, and without it you would never try them, blah,blah, blah, and without comparing them to your sled they don't do a thing blah, blah , blah.
Steve will never answer you here 'cause it's not his thing to get into a internet bash. He's too stand up a guy and busy helping customers.
Have you EVER just picked up the phone and asked him personally? You want to get REALLY technical you can talk to his partener and talk tangents. Or, are you just bashing.
You should just phone and find out (like your Dad will probably do), then come on here and tell us your opinion. You may change some minds but I am sure Steve will still have plenty of satisfied customers.
In closing; Good clutching works everywhere, on the trail up, in the meadows, in the trees, through reasonable elevation change, and on the hill.
Reeb, your probably still mad at me for calling you rude for putting down the boys at Leading Edge. Sorry. Why don't we go for a ride to someplace like Green that has all of the above. Starting to snow again and should great through Christmas. We can trade sleds here and there all the way up. That way you don't have to "throw a penny anywhere". I think you'l be sorry you don't own a Pro-Climb though LOL.
After you get your technical questions answered though, of course.
MDS, best bang for your buck LOL.
One thing to note (and you should be more respectful of your dad), He saw and remembered. There is a benefits from this design for mountians or supermod. He'll phone, he'll try them and make his evaluation for himself without all internet Bally HOO.
I don't know if you remember but he knows a thing or two about track dynos also.
I respect that.
You don't have to go back that far to see the same engineering in clutch weights. Early 90's Performance Yamaha weights (Exciters and V-max's) are very similar. That was when Yamaha still allowed their snowmobile engineers some room for passion not just profit.
The reason we didn't see this continue in any brand is production and development costs. It is simply cheaper to come up with a generic profile for every machine you make and just cast them thicker or thinner for the HP you stick into the chassis.
The other adjust-a-weight kits are really the same, one size (profile) fits all. If you pick the right profile you hit the money. If you didn't, you can move the weight around all you want and try different springs and total mass changes, but you still won't have a total shift "kit".
You can attack your shift from the secondary. Usually these "kits" come with multi-angle helixs and-or spring adjustments. But, these changes will force you to "adjust for conditions" and even "rider skill" I've been told and experienced.
Don't get me wrong. There is some to be gained from a stock secondary but only with the cost of more maintenance, especially with stock weights. The needs for a secondary to sense the torque required is more based on chassis design, weight, and track thus easier for the manufacterer to get generically correct. Rider skill shouldn't be in the equation.
Clutching seems simple since I got MDS weights, I like a single angle helix to keep my torque-sensing the same at any MPH and pick the lightest spring that will keep my backshift and grip with an clean system. Stock has been pretty close.
Secondary design? Whole different thread.
MDS designs and builds weights. No they didn't re-invent the wheel. They developed on the track dyno a weight profile and weight balance for the AC primary and the 800 motor using a single angle helix and to be used in the mountians. They adapted this for the M1000. They also developed a turbo specific weight and a Poo pro weight.
MDS doesn't make or machine anything else. This is their sole product. The money back offer may not mean anything to you Reeb, but you have to agree it is a bold move in this industry. Don't see that too often (if ever). I actually thought last year that would be their demise exactly because of something you pointed out.
Some people think they have everything because of parts or "kits" they have installed, but really may be very short of total performance. Funny, but the opposite is also true in this sport. If your track is humming and your sled is pulling at 7900 why do you think pulling 8300 will improve performance? "Cause somebody told you?
Only way to know is watch the speedo and very few do.
So,,, after over a season with the money back offer, 1000,s of weights sold throughout the world, their only product, and they are still in business and doing fine??? That has to say something to you. Doesn't it?
It's not just the weights or the noticable gains in this sport, it's also about the after sales support. Steve's the best.
The flame; Reeb, you've spewed on here a few times about your track dyno experience blah,blah,blah, and your need to know more specific info for proof, blah, blah, blah, and without it you would never try them, blah,blah, blah, and without comparing them to your sled they don't do a thing blah, blah , blah.
Steve will never answer you here 'cause it's not his thing to get into a internet bash. He's too stand up a guy and busy helping customers.
Have you EVER just picked up the phone and asked him personally? You want to get REALLY technical you can talk to his partener and talk tangents. Or, are you just bashing.
You should just phone and find out (like your Dad will probably do), then come on here and tell us your opinion. You may change some minds but I am sure Steve will still have plenty of satisfied customers.
In closing; Good clutching works everywhere, on the trail up, in the meadows, in the trees, through reasonable elevation change, and on the hill.
Reeb, your probably still mad at me for calling you rude for putting down the boys at Leading Edge. Sorry. Why don't we go for a ride to someplace like Green that has all of the above. Starting to snow again and should great through Christmas. We can trade sleds here and there all the way up. That way you don't have to "throw a penny anywhere". I think you'l be sorry you don't own a Pro-Climb though LOL.
After you get your technical questions answered though, of course.
MDS, best bang for your buck LOL.
V
I read as far as I quoted you, and then quit because he has already answered those questions, read the entire post.
poo man out
For the life of me I will never understand why someone would flame a product that they have never even tried. And on top of that flame a product that, in comparison to what mods for a sled cost, are reasonably priced and have a money back guarantee.
Personally I have never tried these and have no reason to care either way. But I just can't believe when people come on here and say "well I need you to test them like I test them before I'll believe a word you say" Its the same garbage when people weigh sleds. Someone takes the time to groan and moan and say "fill it up and weigh it" or "put your gas can on the back and weigh it" or "did you calibrate the scale right" Its like a bunch of children around here sometimes.
Anyone that comes on here and claims to be such an expert and that they have a testing facility should do just that. step away from the computer and buy a set and test them. then flame or praise away.
BTW this rant has nothing to do with the weights themselves but just the principle behind people and their criticism. Rant over.
Personally I have never tried these and have no reason to care either way. But I just can't believe when people come on here and say "well I need you to test them like I test them before I'll believe a word you say" Its the same garbage when people weigh sleds. Someone takes the time to groan and moan and say "fill it up and weigh it" or "put your gas can on the back and weigh it" or "did you calibrate the scale right" Its like a bunch of children around here sometimes.
Anyone that comes on here and claims to be such an expert and that they have a testing facility should do just that. step away from the computer and buy a set and test them. then flame or praise away.
BTW this rant has nothing to do with the weights themselves but just the principle behind people and their criticism. Rant over.
Where does the flaming come from? A guy posts claims online and I ask for proof to his claims....really? Where is the flaming coming from? I'm not critisizing anything other than his marketing on Snowest. I, again, will not spend money on a product that I have to put my faith in(as well as my money) without hearing about the procedure of which he is using to make such claims.
Geo-who are you? I'd like to know cause it seems like you hold some sort of "dislike" for me. Always jumping on me for the most ridiculous reasons.....lets sit down, have a beer and hash this out. I don't hold grudges on the internet, let's hope I'm wrong about you. Leading Edge flame? You didn't respond, did you read where I was coming from? Mad is not the word, I actually had a smile on my face when replying to you because through the internet, you never know in what regard someone is responding. You just didn't understand my post and I was trying to clarify it for you. As far as running trackdynos....I was the one who set it up and kept it running.....YOU ask my Pa about that.....
Settle down kids......I put my foot forward and left those messages....I was not contacted. But still I'm curious. Not enough to give a guy money that won't reply to posts online(on a site he's trying to sell his wares on), nor via phone. And get jumped on all over the place simply cause I ask a few questions and refuse to follow like many others. I'm glad they work for you guys.....and if I had a dyno room still set-up, this wouldn't be a "fact-finding post" but either a congratulations or warning post.
Stop thinking I'm trying to cut the guy down, I'm simply trying to find out(FROM HIM) the procedure of which he came by these claims......that's as simple as it is.....don't read into anything other.....really....... And come tmrw morning I will be phoning again just for you guys........really...no motive other than looking for answers.......jeez....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going West
Here's an Idea. Instead of bitching that no one has the info you need, why don't you just call MDS and talk to them, your conversation will probably take less time then your mile long post. Then you can come on here and tell everyone exactly how it is.
2 messages with return phone number included. Still waiting. This was exactly after the first round of posts some months ago.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by veritascs
I read as far as I quoted you, and then quit because he has already answered those questions, read the entire post.
poo man out
Funny you should ask ME to read the entire post.....find me those answers and I'll buy you a beer.
Geo-who are you? I'd like to know cause it seems like you hold some sort of "dislike" for me. Always jumping on me for the most ridiculous reasons.....lets sit down, have a beer and hash this out. I don't hold grudges on the internet, let's hope I'm wrong about you. Leading Edge flame? You didn't respond, did you read where I was coming from? Mad is not the word, I actually had a smile on my face when replying to you because through the internet, you never know in what regard someone is responding. You just didn't understand my post and I was trying to clarify it for you. As far as running trackdynos....I was the one who set it up and kept it running.....YOU ask my Pa about that.....
Settle down kids......I put my foot forward and left those messages....I was not contacted. But still I'm curious. Not enough to give a guy money that won't reply to posts online(on a site he's trying to sell his wares on), nor via phone. And get jumped on all over the place simply cause I ask a few questions and refuse to follow like many others. I'm glad they work for you guys.....and if I had a dyno room still set-up, this wouldn't be a "fact-finding post" but either a congratulations or warning post.
Stop thinking I'm trying to cut the guy down, I'm simply trying to find out(FROM HIM) the procedure of which he came by these claims......that's as simple as it is.....don't read into anything other.....really....... And come tmrw morning I will be phoning again just for you guys........really...no motive other than looking for answers.......jeez....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Going West
Here's an Idea. Instead of bitching that no one has the info you need, why don't you just call MDS and talk to them, your conversation will probably take less time then your mile long post. Then you can come on here and tell everyone exactly how it is.
2 messages with return phone number included. Still waiting. This was exactly after the first round of posts some months ago.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by veritascs
I read as far as I quoted you, and then quit because he has already answered those questions, read the entire post.
poo man out
Funny you should ask ME to read the entire post.....find me those answers and I'll buy you a beer.
Last edited:
R
MDS on PC-M800SP
I just wanted to throw a post up regarding the MDS weights that Steve has set me up with. I am running 78.6g w/ 153x2.5" camo extreme track and I really enjoy the way these weights perform. 250mi on my machine so far and has performed flawlessly every day on the mountain(I ride in Revelstoke, BC mainly5000-7000ft). Was in 3-4ft fresh powder on the weekend and pulled a very consistent 8100-8150rpm. Engagement speed around the 3700-3800rpm which is awesome - excellent belt grab at low speeds through the trees, excellent backshift on and off the throttle. Overall i have been very happy with the performance of my machine to date w/ these weights and spring MDS provided me.
To go along with the great performance, the customer service that has been provided to me by Steve has been nothing but top notch. We have had great conversations over the phone about how things have been running and other suggestions that he is working on.
I would recommend MDS to anybody that is running a PC. You will not regret your decision.
Happy riding.
Ryan
I just wanted to throw a post up regarding the MDS weights that Steve has set me up with. I am running 78.6g w/ 153x2.5" camo extreme track and I really enjoy the way these weights perform. 250mi on my machine so far and has performed flawlessly every day on the mountain(I ride in Revelstoke, BC mainly5000-7000ft). Was in 3-4ft fresh powder on the weekend and pulled a very consistent 8100-8150rpm. Engagement speed around the 3700-3800rpm which is awesome - excellent belt grab at low speeds through the trees, excellent backshift on and off the throttle. Overall i have been very happy with the performance of my machine to date w/ these weights and spring MDS provided me.
To go along with the great performance, the customer service that has been provided to me by Steve has been nothing but top notch. We have had great conversations over the phone about how things have been running and other suggestions that he is working on.
I would recommend MDS to anybody that is running a PC. You will not regret your decision.
Happy riding.
Ryan
I
You will not get better service anywhere!! This guy calls you back , at night , on the weekends !!!
I
Anyone get to line up a ProClimb with Cat weights vs one with MDS weights and make a few pulls to get a good comparison yet?
9
So without getting everyone who's bought these weights to jump up and down at me.....let me go back to the first page and ask the questions again.....
The machine in question was strapped to a trackdyno at one point. That much we can establish, the machine netted a 10hp gain swapping weights.
-How was the dyno loaded? Was it loaded via the brake?
-Were any other changes made to the clutching set-up? What were they?
-Was a backshift test done? Very standard test when operating a trackdyno to check results as many of folks(including myself) have realized that trackdynos show more HP with more primary weight......increase the weight and HP increases to ridiculous levels if not kept in check with a backshift test(again, performed with the dyno)
I could care less about the money back warranty, about what customers experienced in other sleds, or how much or how little the owner of MDS knows.....what I care about is the numbers from the dyno. Not because dyno's win races(all you smartasses can stop thinking of witty one liners about dynos and real world results right about now. I want to know if these guys can actually run a dyno properly or simply use it to establish HP numbers and then clutch completely different for the hills.)
If you know how to run a trackdyno, you would know that ambient temp, elevation, and load on motor can all be controlled. For example I was set-up to simulate zero degrees Celcius, 5000ft, and climbing roughly a 35deg slope. (Controlled via a dedicated room built for dyno use)
Reason I know this is not a mathematical formula(well there was a few equations used
What were the procedures used when testing units for HP gains?
I hope we've crawled out of our Lemming uniforms and dare to ask such questions before buying.....I mean, I don't spend my money on something because someone told me so....I do it because it makes sense.....and so far the "claim" is bogus.....and the "proof"(Oh I know it's coming) is nothing but a bunch of guys that "think" the weights made a difference.
The only reason I keep bringing this up is because it intrigues me.....as a matter of fact I showed my father various pictures "geo" was so kind as to post in a previous thread and he laughed....we went out to the shop and he pointed at his '78 SuperMod with a Comet clutch(not stock) and dared me to find a difference in profile to what they did more than 25 years ago. Now a lightbulb went off in his head about why the theory would work in mountain sleds......now he wants a set to try as well......but until someone can answer my questions, I'm not sending a penny MDS' way.
This thread has little credibility(again, guys that have bought from MDS, settle down, sit back, and look at what we have been presented) A claim is no supporting evidence, and very happy customers that have owned and used these weights for sometime. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discredit anyone....but there are still 900RMK owners that think they bought a good sled.....can the same principle apply here?
I mean, I've seen guys think their new sled is kingsht before a older model comes and works them hard.......somehow that guy is still on Snowest come Monday morning claiming his sled is the best thing going......Now he may have a well set-up sled, but is it really that good?
Little story about a DooTalk ride last winter.
I was not apart of the ride, everytime we would pull up, they would be heading out. Maybe it was the lack of me knowing anyone, maybe it was the 2 Cats we had with us. Either way.......not one mark that was put on ANY hill that day by that group was impressive. That's right, you heard me. Not impressed at all. Brand new Etecs, modded RT's, Nitrous 800R's all claiming to be the king of the pile.....problem is, that pile is of rather sad performing sleds........my '06 Summit X with a 150CE outclimbed everyone of their marks that day. Save for TSS Dave's Etec 174 CF chassis, but I dealt with him via a M-Series Cutler 1 Liter. Off track.....point is, I don't claim that my sled is the best or I have the greatest set-up, I claim that my sled "works". It doesn't blow me away with performance, it doesn't rip my arms out of my sockets, it just does what I expect a 160hp sled to do. So when I hear that a brand of weights is a miracle drug to the sledding world, and people are backing that claim with experience.....I gotta wonder just how well do some of these sleds actually run? From my conversations on Dootalk and with friends, I woulda thought this RT1000 MONSTER was going to impress the hell outta me......when in fact I was more ashamed to see it perform so mediocre and then read the next week that everyone was so impressed with it.
Flame on boys, I'm ready for it.
buy a set put them on your sled then put it on your dyno .if you see no positive results return them.then post.
S
So without getting everyone who's bought these weights to jump up and down at me.....let me go back to the first page and ask the questions again.....
The machine in question was strapped to a trackdyno at one point. That much we can establish, the machine netted a 10hp gain swapping weights.
-How was the dyno loaded? Was it loaded via the brake?
-Were any other changes made to the clutching set-up? What were they?
-Was a backshift test done? Very standard test when operating a trackdyno to check results as many of folks(including myself) have realized that trackdynos show more HP with more primary weight......increase the weight and HP increases to ridiculous levels if not kept in check with a backshift test(again, performed with the dyno)
I could care less about the money back warranty, about what customers experienced in other sleds, or how much or how little the owner of MDS knows.....what I care about is the numbers from the dyno. Not because dyno's win races(all you smartasses can stop thinking of witty one liners about dynos and real world results right about now. I want to know if these guys can actually run a dyno properly or simply use it to establish HP numbers and then clutch completely different for the hills.)
If you know how to run a trackdyno, you would know that ambient temp, elevation, and load on motor can all be controlled. For example I was set-up to simulate zero degrees Celcius, 5000ft, and climbing roughly a 35deg slope. (Controlled via a dedicated room built for dyno use)
Reason I know this is not a mathematical formula(well there was a few equations used
What were the procedures used when testing units for HP gains?
I hope we've crawled out of our Lemming uniforms and dare to ask such questions before buying.....I mean, I don't spend my money on something because someone told me so....I do it because it makes sense.....and so far the "claim" is bogus.....and the "proof"(Oh I know it's coming) is nothing but a bunch of guys that "think" the weights made a difference.
The only reason I keep bringing this up is because it intrigues me.....as a matter of fact I showed my father various pictures "geo" was so kind as to post in a previous thread and he laughed....we went out to the shop and he pointed at his '78 SuperMod with a Comet clutch(not stock) and dared me to find a difference in profile to what they did more than 25 years ago. Now a lightbulb went off in his head about why the theory would work in mountain sleds......now he wants a set to try as well......but until someone can answer my questions, I'm not sending a penny MDS' way.
This thread has little credibility(again, guys that have bought from MDS, settle down, sit back, and look at what we have been presented) A claim is no supporting evidence, and very happy customers that have owned and used these weights for sometime. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to discredit anyone....but there are still 900RMK owners that think they bought a good sled.....can the same principle apply here?
I mean, I've seen guys think their new sled is kingsht before a older model comes and works them hard.......somehow that guy is still on Snowest come Monday morning claiming his sled is the best thing going......Now he may have a well set-up sled, but is it really that good?
Little story about a DooTalk ride last winter.
I was not apart of the ride, everytime we would pull up, they would be heading out. Maybe it was the lack of me knowing anyone, maybe it was the 2 Cats we had with us. Either way.......not one mark that was put on ANY hill that day by that group was impressive. That's right, you heard me. Not impressed at all. Brand new Etecs, modded RT's, Nitrous 800R's all claiming to be the king of the pile.....problem is, that pile is of rather sad performing sleds........my '06 Summit X with a 150CE outclimbed everyone of their marks that day. Save for TSS Dave's Etec 174 CF chassis, but I dealt with him via a M-Series Cutler 1 Liter. Off track.....point is, I don't claim that my sled is the best or I have the greatest set-up, I claim that my sled "works". It doesn't blow me away with performance, it doesn't rip my arms out of my sockets, it just does what I expect a 160hp sled to do. So when I hear that a brand of weights is a miracle drug to the sledding world, and people are backing that claim with experience.....I gotta wonder just how well do some of these sleds actually run? From my conversations on Dootalk and with friends, I woulda thought this RT1000 MONSTER was going to impress the hell outta me......when in fact I was more ashamed to see it perform so mediocre and then read the next week that everyone was so impressed with it.
Flame on boys, I'm ready for it.
I have the weights, noticable difference, I like them. The rest.....I would way rather read how good his product is, rather than how smart and knowledgable you are. Getting tired.
You may be right, but kevin with kmod is the same way.
I got a set of weights coming and plan on doing a "on the hill swap" and test.
At this point putting it against another PC wouldn't be fair with my other mods.
I
Yup I'd put kmod right there too. Very good guy to deal with.
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