Don't ride at 3:00 PM.........?

Trashy · Mar 23, 2010

Been noticing an interesting trend after reading countless avy incident reports..... a startlingly high number of fatal slides occur at or near 3 in the afternoon.

I know that solar radiation can contribute to instabilities, but I wonder how much of this is due to bad decisions as a result of overconfidence/fatigue, along with other factors...

Lets hear what you guys have to say, and play it safe out there this weekend!

Scott · Mar 23, 2010

It might be interesting to compile incident report data and chart the time of day that human involved avys take place.

christopher · Mar 23, 2010

Is mid afternoon the witching hour?

Insaneboltrounder/sjohns · Mar 23, 2010

Its a long known fact that by 2 pm the sun has had a bad effect on south facing slopes.

CatWoman · Mar 23, 2010

I noticed it too. All of the recent avy's have happened around 3PM. I even commented on that to the hubby last week.

I think it's a combination of the things you listed Yammy.

columbus · Mar 23, 2010

The bigger issue here is that if something goes sideways at 3pm it can be a lot harder to deal with then the same incident at 10am. If you dont have things sorted before dark it can get a lot worse. Solar radiation can be a factor in the afternoon, but can also be a problem on east facing terrain in the morning-its a bit short sighted to think sun is only a problem at 3pm. Its common knowledge (or at least should be) that something that has been baking in the sun for hours could be unstable, no matter what time of day.

cowboysedge · Mar 23, 2010

Last week my wife and I were riding with a group of friends. She was leading, she stopped and sized up a hill for a climb. She hit the throttle and then let off and turn and headed back to the group. I then asked her what the heck she was doing and she looked at me and said, "Its just after 3 PM, all the avy's have been happening around that time! Just a bad feeling! So on our way we went.

The funny thing is just before that I looked at the time when we were taking a break. It was 2:45 PM. It was at that time I had told myself I'm done for the day. I had made that decision for the same reasons she had.

Funny how the bad feeling hits and we listen to it now!

Arctic Thunder · Mar 23, 2010

This has been some standard info bouncing around for a couple years. Around 2-3pm is prime time for avy's. I believe this is when the snow get heavily loaded due to the higher temps. Then the extra load from a sled or whatever causes the bond to fail.

I have always looked at my watch and made different decisions around these hours.

Good observation. I also noticed the times of the big BC slides. All mid afternoon.

Thunder

kraut · Mar 23, 2010

3:00 pm

I have been mtn riding for 30 yrs.Spring riding I have always gone out early A.M then quit by 1;00 P.M when the heat comes on ,(snow pack becomes more unstable).OR head out after 4;00 during daylight savings .The snow is set up in the early A.M from the cool nights and in the late afternoon the temps are dropping(rather ride early a.m)

whitegold46 · Mar 23, 2010

I was caught in an avy last march 14th....and guess what.... at 3 PM. I think the sun has warmed up the snow enough to make it heavy..... and bingo.... slide!!!

skibreeze · Mar 23, 2010

I set off a big slide a few years ago first thing in the morning, and the next year a guy was killed on the same slope first thing. Both slides were before 10:00. While the sun/ heat does change the snowpack, avy's can bite you at any time. The most important thing is to know what the forcasts are and pay attention to them.

Trashy · Mar 23, 2010

skibreeze said:
I set off a big slide a few years ago first thing in the morning, and the next year a guy was killed on the same slope first thing. Both slides were before 10:00. While the sun/ heat does change the snowpack, avy's can bite you at any time. The most important thing is to know what the forcasts are and pay attention to them.

Definitely not to say they can't happen at other times... but since I started the thread I have read reports from at least 50 other incidents from past years as well and I betcha 90% of them are between 2:30 and 3:30.

muffins51 · Mar 23, 2010

im the type of guy who doesnt like to mess around much before noon just because of saving energy and afraid of breaking something and ruining the day so i usually dont get crazy till after noon, maybe other people are that way to and that could be another reason why they happen around that time, thats another angle to look at

columbus · Mar 23, 2010

muffins51 said:
im the type of guy who doesnt like to mess around much before noon just because of saving energy and afraid of breaking something and ruining the day so i usually dont get crazy till after noon, maybe other people are that way to and that could be another reason why they happen around that time, thats another angle to look at

translation-you are lazy and hungover. Saying you dont want to hurt yourself or your sled in the morning is the worst excuse I have ever heard for sleeping in. There are a million reasons to be out early, done early.

Though sun affected slopes will destabilize with exposure to the sun, dont let this fool anyone into thinking a dark windloaded north face in January is any safer in the morning because it isnt. Unless it is sweltering hot, the heat of the day during winter doesnt have much affect on snowpack unless the area in question is receiving direct sun.

Trashy · Mar 24, 2010

Written By John Kelly of the CAC

One of the fundamental principles of travel in avalanche terrain is to limit the numbers exposed to the consequences of an avalanche. Riding in avalanche terrain should be a solitary activity, thus you group up in a safe spots and then hit the slopes alone. Somehow this principle is not being followed in the sled accidents we are seeing. Over the next few weeks the CAC will be aggressively pursue messaging that targets this public safety issue. We are asking you to help.

With the current conditions as they are we can expect to see decreasing frequency of avalanches but with increasing size. This means it becomes more and more tempting to hit the slope that you have resisted because you may go quite a long time without seeing any avalanche activity. Unfortunately when a slide does occur (I did not say "if") the strong likelihood is that it will be bigger than expected. It can also occur on slopes that are less steep than usual. It is therefore critical that people respect the one-at-a-time rule for slope use - even in moderately steep terrain!

I would be expecting avalanche activity in the coming week to be on slopes about 30 to 35 degrees with a wide-open smooth character. This is not very steep.

I am interested in your thoughts on how we encourage reduced numbers of exposed people at the same time in avalanche country. If you are seeing bad habits in terms of grouping together where you are, you should consider taking action to counter the trend. Please forward this message to your members.

hypnotoad · Mar 24, 2010

yammy1320 said:
Written By John Kelly of the CAC

One of the fundamental principles of travel in avalanche terrain is to limit the numbers exposed to the consequences of an avalanche. Riding in avalanche terrain should be a solitary activity, thus you group up in a safe spots and then hit the slopes alone. Somehow this principle is not being followed in the sled accidents we are seeing. Over the next few weeks the CAC will be aggressively pursue messaging that targets this public safety issue. We are asking you to help.

With the current conditions as they are we can expect to see decreasing frequency of avalanches but with increasing size. This means it becomes more and more tempting to hit the slope that you have resisted because you may go quite a long time without seeing any avalanche activity. Unfortunately when a slide does occur (I did not say "if") the strong likelihood is that it will be bigger than expected. It can also occur on slopes that are less steep than usual. It is therefore critical that people respect the one-at-a-time rule for slope use - even in moderately steep terrain!

I would be expecting avalanche activity in the coming week to be on slopes about 30 to 35 degrees with a wide-open smooth character. This is not very steep.

I am interested in your thoughts on how we encourage reduced numbers of exposed people at the same time in avalanche country. If you are seeing bad habits in terms of grouping together where you are, you should consider taking action to counter the trend. Please forward this message to your members.

beat me to it yammy, was going to post this up as well

Trashy · Mar 24, 2010

That's cause I'm so quick...

Wheel House Motorsports · Mar 24, 2010

also, I know it might not only be me.. but right around 3 is usually when I make bad descisions and hurt myself. its later in the day, im tired, worn down, say, 1 more climb.. etc etc. combined with the fact that the snowpack tends to be more prone to sliding that time of day, its sort of a lose lose for getting involved in a slide. Also, I know it is for me, in the morning its easy to pass up a nice looking hill early and say, nope, not safe, more nice hills to slay, but later in the day the good stuff gets beat up and it still hasnt slid, maybe somebody else marked it... whatever. impatients combined with bad descision making definately has cause me to do some things I regret. I try to learn, but we are human, and mistakes are something we excel at.

turboless terry · Mar 24, 2010

I don't know everything but to quit riding because it is 3 in the afternoon is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard of. You guys drive in rush hour traffic? Avalanches might be more prone in the afternoon. I don't know for sure. I have seen slides happen from first thing in the morning to the middle of the afternoon.No mountainside is immune from sliding. I don't care if some avalanche expert test the snow on it. It is still only relatively safe. A person just needs to use their heads a little bit. Safety is ultimately up to each individual so if you don't think it is safe then don't do it. I just don't want to see people lock themselves in their house because of what happened in Canada. You can still have fun and be relatively safe.

Trashy · Mar 25, 2010

I think you might be missing the point, TT....

Any way you slice it, be safe out there this weekend!

Don't ride at 3:00 PM.........?

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