>>> SAWS calls it Quits after 10 years!

No industry support.....consistent theme for sure! The money only goes one way in this business. When will the industry realize that those that make great efforts to support their business need reciprocal energy to survive? Probably never. It really makes one wonder whether the big 4 actually care about the sport or just profit. Brutal.

Thank you for all the hard work!!!

Thanks for having the Balls to donate your time...It is very admirable when folks dedicate there time for free.

Job well done on behalf of snowmobiling the mountain states .

DPG

Jorli said:

No industry support.....consistent theme for sure! The money only goes one way in this business. When will the industry realize that those that make great efforts to support their business need reciprocal energy to survive? Probably never. It really makes one wonder whether the big 4 actually care about the sport or just profit. Brutal.

Thank you for all the hard work!!!

Click to expand...

If you look at nation-wide snowmobile registrations, the mountain/western states make up about 10%. There is where the mountain segment lies. When you back away and take the emotion out of it (extremely hard to do btw) it makes sense that the Big Four, ACSA, IMSA, etc., don't do a lot to support the cause that SAWS worked towards.

Your best bet is to join and support your local clubs and state association. The list of recipients noted in the letter above are all very good at working on our behalf. I would encourage everyone to support some of these or to find out who is fighting on your behalf locally and support them.

Sled Idaho said:

If you look at nation-wide snowmobile registrations, the mountain/western states make up about 10%. There is where the mountain segment lies. When you back away and take the emotion out of it (extremely hard to do btw) it makes sense that the Big Four, ACSA, IMSA, etc., don't do a lot to support the cause that SAWS worked towards.

Your best bet is to join and support your local clubs and state association. The list of recipients noted in the letter above are all very good at working on our behalf. I would encourage everyone to support some of these or to find out who is fighting on your behalf locally and support them.

Click to expand...

I believe its closer to 25% in Western states, however I'm Canadian. Just rings true with dealings with the industry.

hats off to saws

hats off to saws past and a crying shame there is no saws for the future

Jorli said:

No industry support.....consistent theme for sure! The money only goes one way in this business. When will the industry realize that those that make great efforts to support their business need reciprocal energy to survive? Probably never. It really makes one wonder whether the big 4 actually care about the sport or just profit. Brutal.

Thank you for all the hard work!!!

Click to expand...

I would say profit is number one in any business. I can't speak for the western states but, Polaris and Arctic Cat are very much involved inside and outside the snowmobiling industry.

http://webmn.alsa.org/site/TR?fr_id=10520&pg=entry

Pro-8250 said:

I would say profit is number one in any business. I can't speak for the western states but, Polaris and Arctic Cat are very much involved inside and outside the snowmobiling industry.

http://webmn.alsa.org/site/TR?fr_id=10520&pg=entry

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Yes, and when the areas get closed and snowmobiling gets shut out, they won't be making any profit in these markets.

Sad day indeed... but not surprising.

I've watched at Snow Shows as people, mountain sledders, walk right by the SAWS booth with their $5 beer in hand and a crappy $7 burrito ...
and not drop a red cent to contribute to the "cause".

I also agree with Jorli that the Business and Industry contributions to organizations like SAWS is/has-been, for the most part, apathetic.

I'm proud that I have been a consistent contributor to SAWS, and will continue to be with other organizations out there.






.

As it was pointed out in the press release and has mentioned in other forum threads, the various wilderness coalitions that work to have snowmobiling shutdown receive a tremendous amount of support from industry affiliates, that certainly must help to provide them with some energy to pursue their agenda. If those that profit the most in our industry will not stick up for it, then it is a lost cause. I really don't understand the apathy.

sad.... at least i can still support BRC

Jorli said:

I believe its closer to 25% in Western states, however I'm Canadian. Just rings true with dealings with the industry.

Click to expand...

You're probably right. Numbers are here: http://www.snowmobile.org/stats-facts.asp

If you browse through the rest of the IMSA website, there is no mention of land use that I could find. ACSA (http://www.snowmobilers.org/) does mention it, but snowmobilers have to go looking for it.

Sad, but hardly surprising. I once spent a decade of my life dedicated to "the cause". I started a club where there was none, collaborated directly with the state clubs Pres and vp, met repeatedly with the USFS and BLM managers, reasearched, photographed, mapped, commented, wrote to the paper almost weekly, met with local anti groups repeatedly, and on and on and on.

It is an impossible uphill battle against an adversary many times our size. Witness the continued loss of rights in the face of all the opposition we can muster.

I gave up too. Club members were more interested in drinking beer than solving problems. Now we have a proposed wilderness expansion that I can see from my house in town. Still nobody seems to care.

This is the same kind of thing that drove my buddy out of a 20 year long career as a logger in Oregon. Rules, regs, closures all under the guise of "protecting" our lands.

So far, we remain pretty fortunate where I live. Lots to ride, not many people riding.

I respect the volunteers of SAWS an admire the decade of effort. Having personally been involved (as a volunteer) (for too long also) fighting land use issues for motorsports, IMO the business model of SAWS was flawed from the beginning.



A little history. Land use issues for those that like to turn, flip or push a throttle have been around since I first pushed my dirt bike up the street to the edge of town. Whether it is a small bike track at the edge of town or a small unique flower in remote location that's under 20' of snow when your're there, the issue is always about lifestyles in the end. You like motors or you don't.

This is how you need to tackle your agenda at the round table and fight fire with fire.



Volunteer is a thing from the 70's. Everyone else at this level is a paid employee or lobbyist. The posey sniffer groups have been organized this way for decades. Their agenda is very clear internally (but they also are well versed in political correctness and clique wording) and they come equipped with the proper tools.
They like days of nothing accomplished because volunteers eventually disappear. Maybe not for this battle but usually before the end of the war.

Proper tools? Numbers and dollars with a "spattering" of scientific fact to fill the discussion of the day.

If you have an "undisputed" scientific fact, it is like an ace in the hole and a good "poker player" can win this battle but numbers and dollars wins the war. It's a lot of research and effort to come up with and prove an "undisputed" scientific fact for each battle.

Kinda simplified but the representatives of the manufacturers, government, and even local commercial enterprises side with numbers and dollars because it speaks to them (their language) in the same terms as their bosses and their agenda.

Their battle here is to gain sales, votes and future income.

That leaves just those that like motors and those that don't to battle for a consensus. Motor lovers have never really got together to help their cause. I remember fighting ATVer's for motorcycle use lol. I still shake my head in disbelief.


If you have 4000 members (not a big #) but if it represents 40,000 sledders, then you multiply that by 5 to include ma, pa, 2 kids and the dog and you come closer to the same math used by other users involved.

With those numbers in hand you hire money committee (that enjoys this stuff) to "attack" everyone involved for donations and grants as well as hire a membership committee (who can use "paid" volunteers) to just go out and get signatures to get the money committee more numbers and thus more money.

After you are well funded at this level you hire "political" committee to lobby the other "motor lovers" to set aside their differences and look at the bigger picture and support each other and combine numbers and dollars.

That number would bring huge influence to land use co-ordinate resource management committees.

When your rich enough you can buy a ship or two and make international headlines and have international stars join in to get more numbers and money while your saving the,,,.

Oops wrong user group lol



We are so far (world-wise) behind it may be almost irreversible. This may not be understood by peeps from the more metropolitan parts of the country but I feel lucky up here that free-riding is still around in places. 45min. from home and I'm on the snow and grinning. I like that and is one of the reasons I live where I do but I hear they may ask me to plate my sled soon lol.

That is an attempt to put numbers and dollars together up here so I'll pay my fee for that reason but will continue to follow the loggers (really well paid lobbyists lol). After they finish "cleaning up" the mountain and move out, we ride until the new growth comes in. Then simply move on.

I really only have another decade to worry about though lol.

Here's another thought. You go to REI and buy something. You go buy a Subaru. You go to Costco. I can go on and on, portions of those dollars go to the cause of importance to those organizations. As times goes on piles of dollars add up in an effort for the or other organizations they believe in. I don't see much of that in any of the purchases I make specific to snowmobiling.