Another Front End Thread

boondocker97 · Sep 16, 2016

So now that there's been a full season on the new Arctic Cat front ends, what is the consensus on them compared to the previous offerings by Skinz, Alternative Impact, Barcode, etc. ? Since Cat started offering pretty economical kits to upgrade sleds to their latest design, some of these other front ends that previously had gotten good reviews have been pushed to the back burner it seems. Is the Cat front end really that good, or just the easiest option? How are the weight comparisons between all the options?

I've re-read the Skinz, Alt, and Barcode review threads. Here they are to refresh everyone's memories:
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=388215&highlight=skinz+concept+front+end
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392411&highlight=Alternative+Impact
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=414333

I'm still riding with the BDX front end that came on my 2014 Pro-lite. After hearing all these reviews about how people's sleds got better and riding some 2016s I'd like to update mine. However, people who have read the other front end threads have probably gathered that I'm a fan of the 38" ski stance. This leaves me with the options of either the Cat or the Zbroz upper arm and spindle kits. Problem is I made an investment in a set of front shocks that I'm running now that don't clear the newer upper arms (see attached photo #1&2). I was hoping to be able to change the upper part of the shock that the reservoir is attached to so it's like the new versions of this shock (see attached photo #3). That doesn't look like it's going to pan out now due to thread changes.

So now I'm left with these options:
1. Running what I got
2. Getting a 38" upper arm, spindle, and trying to sell my shocks and reinvest in new ones.
3. Get a 36" wide front end that will work with my shocks. It looks like the Skinz upper arm would clear my straight mounted reservoir as well as the Alternative impact kit. Not a fan of the perceived lack of parts availability with Skinz or the price. Alt Impact upper arm looks like it would clear also and parts seem to be a non issue with them. Would need to source some older style spindles to work with it which I'm guessing can be had for a song right now. Alt setup in Ti might cut a couple lbs more off my front end as a bonus. My shocks already have spherical eyes on them to work with either of these kits, would just need spacers installed to shorten (which I can do myself).
4. Last option would be to do the 38" upper arm and new spindle and use my stock shocks. I'm not a huge fan of this since I'm a bit of a suspension snob and like my higher end shocks. This is definitely the cheapest upgrade option for me though.

Another reason I'm not sold on a 36" front end is that I don't think I'll be going to narrower boards to suck in my panels. Stood on a sled with them and it doesn't leave as much platform as I'd like to stand on. Seems I'm stuck in the worst possible middle ground situation of what I want vs. what I can get. What say the masses on this one?

CO 2.0 · Sep 16, 2016

Did you contact Toms to see if he can get different parts to update your shocks so theyll work? I wouldn't think it would cost too much. Maybe $200. Since you are wanting 38", most the other kits are out

RACINSTATION · Sep 16, 2016

Just a quick note on the perceived parts availability.

We have never had any parts availability issues with the Skinz or the Alternative Impact front ends. I try to stock ball joint ends and some of the bolts etc, but whenever we have ordered additional parts they were right there.

boondocker97 · Sep 16, 2016

CO 2.0 said:
Did you contact Toms to see if he can get different parts to update your shocks so theyll work? I wouldn't think it would cost too much. Maybe $200. Since you are wanting 38", most the other kits are out

I'm working with Carver's on it right now. They're getting the part number off the shock to check, but the initial thought was there was a thread change between generations so parts won't thread together. Also need to make sure the newer top cap/eyelet isn't taller as it looks like it is in the photos. If the correct parts can be located I can even swap them myself.

Regardless of what I end up with, Would still like to hear more comparisons on the aftermarket front ends compared to stock '16+ Cat.

F_ast · Sep 27, 2016

The only issue I have seen with the 16 front end is buckling tie rods when you punch a tree with the outside toe on the ski. Simple part change though.

Chewy22 · Sep 28, 2016

The skinz kit works well. I'm positive the ALT kit is just as good, maybe even better just no experience.

That being said, I do like the new cat front-end with revalved evols over the skinz. The skinz is more 'tippy' and harder steering; but that is expected given the raised and forward design. The angle of the spindles are very similar on both kits. Taller spindles on the skinz kit does help with 'paneling out' if you want to stick with stock width boards. I also like the clearance of the skinz lower a-arms. For technical backcountry riding the skinz kit works awesome, but the cat front-end works just as well and has better trail manners. Also prefer the cat front-end for jumping. On the shop floor the skinz kit does lay over easier but I didn't really notice much difference laying the sled on it's side on the hill. But I never had an opportunity to compare both on the same hill at the same time.

I am a believer the new cat front-end works best in combination with the skid geometry changes in 16. So if you have a 15 and older M and don't want to change the skid geometry too, then the ALT or Skinz kit might be a great option.

Goin For Snow · Oct 3, 2016

so converting the 38" to the 36", the spacer should be added correct? Thats all that needs to be done to the shocks?

boondocker97 · Oct 3, 2016

Goin For Snow said:
so converting the 38" to the 36", the spacer should be added correct? Thats all that needs to be done to the shocks?

If you have stock shocks then yes, that is correct. Not that simple for my situation though.

Update: Carver now thinks I'll be able to do the shock cap swap, but still waiting on confirmation and part numbers from Fox.

sillyrabbit0420 · Oct 4, 2016

F_ast said:
The only issue I have seen with the 16 front end is bulking tie rods when you punch a tree with the outside toe on the ski. Simple part change though.

Yup^^^
One day at Kebler pass, roughly an hour into my ride... I was enjoying some tight and twisty treed out slopage with some nice fallen log pillows to lift the skis over. It was amazing. Perhaps the best day of my life.

I just barely tagged a tree with the outside ski tip, and my forward momentum suddenly ceased.
Upon further examination, I determined that the left ski tip was now pointed directly at my exhaust outlet.

I was able to yank and bend the tie rod enough to allow me to ride out without too much drama. But it ended my riding for the day.

I had to settle for going home, drinking beer, and ordering parts.

IgnantJr · Oct 4, 2016

F_ast said:
The only issue I have seen with the 16 front end is buckling tie rods when you punch a tree with the outside toe on the ski. Simple part change though.

Ill make sure to get a spare for each side before I head out to the hills. Thanks!

Motorbreath_ · Oct 4, 2016

I have a zbroz top a-arm you can have for a good price. The one that works with the new spindle and 38 inch stance.

fishstick · Oct 5, 2016

The new Barcode kit doesn't need any shock mods. It can use the stock shocks. I love what it did to my ride.

blackjack85335 · Oct 7, 2016

Barcode thoughts?

I'm looking at barcode for my m1100. Tell me more about what you think of the kit fishstick, pros n cons, thoughts.

john6719 · Oct 7, 2016

IgnantJr said:
Ill make sure to get a spare for each side before I head out to the hills. Thanks!

We carry a couple spares in the truck. Both sides are the same part and it is a cheap part. We've bent several between our three sleds, but like said above, easy fix and can bend straight to get out. In fact, we have been able to bend them straight and keep riding that day and just replace when we get back to town.

fishstick · Oct 8, 2016

blackjack85335 said:
I'm looking at barcode for my m1100. Tell me more about what you think of the kit fishstick, pros n cons, thoughts.

I love the kit! Ive had a chance to ride the stock 16 front end also, the stock 16 is a huge leap over the 2012-2015. The Barcode kit takes it a couple of steps further. Its crazy easy to get the sled on edge now. And it stays there real easy. The extra sterring radius is great. I have the older kit. But they came out with a new version for 2016-17 that puts the older spindle to the same castor angle as the new 2016-2017 spindle. Form what I've read from CO 2.0 on here its pretty great. Ill most likely order a new set of uppers form them. It's a bit more tippy on trail. But I knew that going. Took a bit to get used to it. But in my opinion well worth it.

boondocker97 · Feb 15, 2017

I have an update to this. I got the 38" Zbroz upper a-arms and 2016 cat spindles and the arms contact the shock reservoir by fractions of an inch. I'm sticking with them and will run stock shocks for a while until I can upgrade again.

FYI:

I weighed the BDX spindles, hardware, upper arms, and brackets and it all came out to 8.62lb. That was with one of the thicker updated spindles and one original. 0.27lb difference between original and updated parts.

The cat spindles, zbroz upper arms, bolts, ball joints, and bulkhead brackets for the upper arms were at 10lb even. So less than 1.5lb heavier is all than what I had. I was pretty impressed with that.

Jussip · Sep 29, 2017

Fox float 3 evol + 36" front end

Hi

I planned to update my -13 M800 front end to new desing with 36" Narrow arms. I have the stock 38" front end to where I have updated Float 3 evol shock's.

Country Cat web page says:
Requires rebuilding shocks to add a spacer, which will shorten the extended length (that I know)
2013-2015 style Float Evol shocks cannot be used with this kit, the Evol chamber will hit the upper a-arm

Does this mean I have now two options new shock's or just go with the upgrade kit with new 38" upper arm and spindles by AC or Zbroz

Is there some pros to spend bit more and go with Zbroz upper A-arms vs. A-C kit ?

line8 · Sep 29, 2017

Jussip said:
Hi

I planned to update my -13 M800 front end to new desing with 36" Narrow arms. I have the stock 38" front end to where I have updated Float 3 evol shock's.

Country Cat web page says:

Requires rebuilding shocks to add a spacer, which will shorten the extended length (that I know)

2013-2015 style Float Evol shocks cannot be used with this kit, the Evol chamber will hit the upper a-arm

Does this mean I have now two options new shock's or just go with the upgrade kit with new 38" upper arm and spindles by AC or Zbroz

Is there some pros to spend bit more and go with Zbroz upper A-arms vs. A-C kit ?

I've got the zbros 38" with AC spindles. You can leave your shocks alone going this route. Some prefer the 36" and some prefer the 38". You will know which is right for you. Myself I like the 38" and then put the skiis in the narrower position.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

boondocker97 · Sep 29, 2017

Can you post a picture of your shocks? The Zbros upper has more of a rounded hoop shape to it than a triangle like the Cat ones. So the Zbros arm gives more shock clearance. It almost worked with a full on piggyback with a long reservoir on mine so I'm guessing it will clear a top-mounted Evol chamber (38" stance anyway). The Cat 36" kit won't clear anything other than a monotube shock on the outside. So any chamber or reservoir has to be on the bottom or clocked to the inside.

line8 · Sep 29, 2017

boondocker97 said:
Can you post a picture of your shocks? The Zbros upper has more of a rounded hoop shape to it than a triangle like the Cat ones. So the Zbros arm gives more shock clearance. It almost worked with a full on piggyback with a long reservoir on mine so I'm guessing it will clear a top-mounted Evol chamber (38" stance anyway). The Cat 36" kit won't clear anything other than a monotube shock on the outside. So any chamber or reservoir has to be on the bottom or clocked to the inside.

Not sure if this gives you the view you need.

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