HEADS UP TO THOSE WITH 2013/14 THAT ARE NOT RUNNING HEADLIGHTS

mountainhorse · Dec 6, 2012

I'm looking into this more right now. I will evolve this more as I go.

This is a helpful "Heads up" kind of post and is in no way meant to ruffle any feathers for anyone... In the end... run what you want to run
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If you are running a turbo or other setup on a 2013/14 RMK that has the headlights deleted... I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you install load resistors if you are not running headlights.

Polaris, new for 2013, now has combined the voltage regulators for the ecu and lighting/charging coils. The housing is shared, But the two regulators are separate components inside. The connector for the Lighting/charging coil remains the same.... and is separate from the ECU connector for the regulator.

For a stock sled... this is a good setup.

Start to mod the electrical system beyond what Polaris has designed... you may cause some problems.

These regulators are "shunt" regulators ... whatever current is NOT used...gets "dumped" as heat.

Now... if that heat is "Dumped" into the main ECU regulator component of the now Shared main regulator... then you could fail that unit (dead sled) and/or the ECU at the same time (dead sled).

If you "fry" the lighting regulator on a 2013/14... you have a good chance of "frying" the ECU portion of that regulator as well... which runs the risk of "frying" the ECU...

This will not be a problem with an unmodified (stock) 2013/14 sled WITH headlights...but could cause you no end of greif on a modded 2013 with no headlights

On a 2011/12 PRO RMK, if you "failed" the lighting/charging regulator... the only things that you would see would be non operational lights and hand/thumb warmers and, if equipped with ES, possibly a "cooked" battery.
Sure, there are people that have run their 13's without headlights already... But are you willing to take that risk that did not exist in the 2011/12 PRO's???

IMO... In that situation where you are not running a headlight load... Simply disconnect the AC 3-wire Rubber connector on the stock combined and run an inexpensive separate regulator that is well heat-sinked to aluminum.

Use Polaris #4010794 that will simply plug into the factory harness still on the 2013's. This was used on Edge sleds equipped with Electric start and all the 2011/12 PRO RMK's.

It WILL need to be mounted to metal that will allow transfer of heat from the VR.

That way, if you your lighting/charging VR fails because you have low load on the unit or thermal load... It does not take out your other regulator.

The price from Polaris is about the same as the price from WPS (#12-3081) or HiPerf (#174-202)

This is what the voltage regs look like from the EDGE sleds and the 2010/11/12 PRO RIDE sleds

NOTE: This does not apply to the 2011/12 units.

Some great pics from Die Hard Poo

71F97B65-9A2A-4BB8-9F3E-80E4B4B2EB0A-21569-0000241610CE4596.jpg

1716C080-CDF6-44CC-B646-D3432ED0AF18-21569-0000241616BF70B4.jpg

Photo showing EDGE style 3-wire VR mounted to the clutch guard in addition to the stock combined regulator.

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Matte Murder · Dec 6, 2012

MH what would we do without you? Thanks for the info. I plan on running an LED light bar with a stock headlight delete. Any problems with that?

Murph · Dec 7, 2012

Matte Murder said:
MH what would we do without you? Thanks for the info. I plan on running an LED light bar with a stock headlight delete. Any problems with that?

No problems IF the LED lightbar is pulling the same current as the stock lights. More than likely the LED is pulling less amps-- you will need to check and see.

If the LED bar is pulling less amps and you are not running any additional draws (GPS, helmet light, bag heater, AFR, etc) you will either want to add an additional resistor or the 11/12 regulator.

If you choose to run an 11/12 reg like pictured above on the 2013-- make sure you mount it to aluminum, not zip tied to the carbon over structure, that reg needs to dump excess heat through its base when mounted on a solid aluminum surface. The thicker, the better, due to more thermal mass and heat dissipation.

snopromod · Dec 7, 2012

Not sure if I completely agree with this, correct me if I'm wrong.. but the regulator does exactly what it says, if you pull headlights yes there is less draw but it will not produce any more current then is on demand, should still be 12v and how ever many amps just less draw on the system? Am I wrong?

pus1100 · Dec 7, 2012

snopromod said:
Not sure if I completely agree with this, correct me if I'm wrong.. but the regulator does exactly what it says, if you pull headlights yes there is less draw but it will not produce any more current then is on demand, should still be 12v and how ever many amps just less draw on the system? Am I wrong?

wrong.stator output is still the same,so the regulator needs to 'dump' excess current.

Murph · Dec 7, 2012

snopromod said:
Not sure if I completely agree with this, correct me if I'm wrong.. but the regulator does exactly what it says, if you pull headlights yes there is less draw but it will not produce any more current then is on demand, should still be 12v and how ever many amps just less draw on the system? Am I wrong?

Charging/ lighting coils output rated in watts. They are a fixed output for a given rpm--they are not on demand.

Volts x amps= watts

As you decrease amp draw, volts naturally rise, the regulator then bleeds off excess volts in the form of heat. Heat eventually kills regultors.

Over time, excessive regulation of voltage, due to headlight delete, COULD cause premature failure of regulator.

snopromod · Dec 7, 2012

pus1100 said:
wrong.stator output is still the same,so the regulator needs to 'dump' excess current.

That does not matter this is after the regulator.. the thing i thought about i guess is if regulator allows 5amps and you only have a draw of 2amps those other 3 should go to ground or disipate as heat.. a person would think the regulator has a safety margin to protect against headlights burning out or being deleted.

mountainhorse · Dec 7, 2012

Plain and simple, you remove 9 amps of load when you delete the headlights. That will make more heat in the regulator.

Polairs did not design the system to be run with no headlights.

As I said in my first part of the first post above... Do as you want... but I'd recommend against ANY drastic change from stock without giving it some serious considerations as to what that could mean as a system.

Snopromod, on YOUR 2013, run it as you want and I sincerely hope you have a trouble free season.

What is a balanced charging system?

A balanced charging system is when the manufacturer designs lets say 25 amp charging system and the bike uses 20 to 22 amps of it to run the bike and charge the battery. The R/R only needs to get rid of 3 or so amps, so it is happy. Now if you take that same bike and run led taillights and marker lights and maybe some led headlights now your making the R/R get rid of lets say 10 amps, now its working hard and getting hot. Although it seems like your doing your bike a favor by thinking it's going to charge your battery better your actually slowly killing your R/R. Not to mention if you unplug your headlights for track days. Wow!!!!

http://www.roadstercycle.com/Frequently asked questions.htm

rmscustom · Dec 7, 2012

Where exactly does this get plugged into? A pic would be cool.

mountainhorse · Dec 7, 2012

It gets plugged into the same connector that you disconnect from the 2013 combined regulator... pop YOUR side panel on your 2013 and have a look at the VR mounted to the clutch cover.

No pic for now... Maybe someone else can post one up for me!!

It is the mate for this... pretty straight fwd.

rmscustom · Dec 7, 2012

Thanks, I wanted to make sure... I hate electrical stuff.

mngoat · Dec 8, 2012

Not to change the subject but does anyone know if a headlight are actually required (by law) on the sled, esp in Montana,Idaho? Ride without one and have a helmet mount if i get caught out after dark. I have tried to search for info but have come up empty handed. Thanks.

idahoskiguy · Dec 8, 2012

Not aware of any requirement

Been riding in Idaho since 1968 and I am not aware of any requirement to actually have a headlight on your snowmobile.

:yo:

dabensmiller · Dec 9, 2012

I done the headlight delete to my '13 pro and this weekend at about 300 miles my heated grips and aftermarket lights quit working. I normally ran the lights off during the day and only turned them on at night so resistors are definatly needed or some source of power draw to match stock. While im waiting for my new voltage reg can a safely run my sled without causing any further damage??

rmscustom · Dec 9, 2012

Cheapest I've found
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voltage-Reg...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ec452ab40&vxp=mtr

ak · Dec 9, 2012

There's some picks of the regulator and how it is mounted.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316138&highlight=Die+hard+poo

mountainhorse · Dec 9, 2012

dabensmiller said:
I done the headlight delete to my '13 pro and this weekend at about 300 miles my heated grips and aftermarket lights quit working. I normally ran the lights off during the day and only turned them on at night so resistors are definatly needed or some source of power draw to match stock. While im waiting for my new voltage reg can a safely run my sled without causing any further damage??

This is exactly what I'm talking about, and the purpose of the thread.

IMO, you got lucky that you only lost the lighting/warmers. :face-icon-small-win
But also... a good sign of the P.I. engineers making some better parts and installing them well.
I like the heat sink fins below the clutch guard that will pick up air from the spinning primary!

Yes, safe... but disconnect the lighting VR plug

I would unplug the Lighting regulator connector on the combined 2013 VR however.

Did you delete the Headlight because of a turbo intercooler? If so, which one?

IMO... Do the separate VR...Cheaper than replacing the main reg.. and safer if something goes wrong (as elaborated above)

You can plug into the stock location... mount this lighting regulator in a separate location it is attached to a good piece of aluminum as a heat sink and not have to change out the stock regulator... as I said above, in your situation, that is different than stock (running without headlights)... best to have the lighting/charging VR in a separate location.

The link from rmscustom is a great price including shipping.
If that one is sold, the vendor seems to always re list another.

Use some heat sink compound between the VR and the metal it mounts to... helps to conduct heat to the piece better.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390071858003

Resistors: 2ohm 100W

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321063847923

$(KGrHqZHJBQFJb2J-Oy2BS(kruBtKg~~60_57.JPG

my 2 cents.

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dabensmiller · Dec 9, 2012

I installed a kit from menztoys.com that deletes the stock light and replaces it with a mesh screen and two small pia lights, basicially to allow air flow for better cooling. I am not turbo'd. I set the lights up so they would only come on when i switched them on. I plan on checking what kind of power draw they have and installing a resistor to make up the difference. I will also be doing a VR from a '12. Thanks for the info. :face-icon-small-hap

phatty · Dec 12, 2012

Yo, MH
running a headlight delete on my 2011... lost handwarmers, which isnt really an issue, but would be nice to fix so i can do some night riding and not freeze my thumb off... any ideas what I should look at to fix them?

Guess Darcy missed the memo about sled builds going in the members sled build forum? :face-icon-small-dis

phatty · Dec 12, 2012

Yo, MH
running a headlight delete on my 2011... lost handwarmers, which isnt really an issue, but would be nice to fix so i can do some night riding and not freeze my thumb off... any ideas what I should look at to fix them?

Guess Darcy missed the memo about sled builds going in the members sled build forum? :face-icon-small-dis

HEADS UP TO THOSE WITH 2013/14 THAT ARE NOT RUNNING HEADLIGHTS

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