Redneck Racing.. The Fix for the 800 Dragons

Outlaw525s · Jan 8, 2011

Hey anyone ever use the kit by redneck racing? I have just recently installed one on my sled. Anyway what it is for example is just say your out riding your sled hard.. and you stop at a conveinance store and gas up and get a candybar and a pop.. So aftter you eat your canday bar 15 minuets go by.So you go back outside to your sled. Now there is snow crusted up in your tunnel that has now mealted and made the antifreeze in your tunnel drop the temperature to about 0 to 25 degreess(depending on how much snow is in your tunnel) Now you go out and pull your rope and sart your sled and boom.. that 0- 25 degree water hits your cylindar and head causing the piston to expand and score.. Thus the water enters on mag side and thats what causes that side to always score.. so you not knowing this start it up and take off right away thinking its warm... watching mine when i started it my temp was at 150 degrees .. about 45 seconds later my temp was now at 80 degrees.. Its called a cold splash! now this kit consists of basicaally some hose clamps a pvc pipe with a thermstat in the inside of it.. now what it does is that it redirects the coollent and waits until its 130-140 degrees before hittign the cylimdar... now installing this on mine i tested it out hard for 3 days and also found that when i did stop for a candy bar and stuff, and noticed that from 150 to 130 is what it dropped. Im wayyy happier with a 20 degree drop then a 70 degree drop. it works great on mine and i noticed alot more hp because it now runs a normal temp of 145- 150 degrees. Now before the kit i ranabout 120 degrees all the time! anyone else run this kit? if so what do you think of it?

sonday_2 · Jan 8, 2011

Price check? Can't it be matched up as a PCV..If your saying this thing is a must just like the PCV..Can the price be matched????

poledge800 · Jan 8, 2011

we put one on a 09 dragon and ran it against a stock one and the one that had it seemed to pull harder and ran hotter and didnt have to let it warm up over 100 degrees every time i stop for more than 15 minutes all the time like i did
i really think that it is worth the money mine just went out of warranty and the gizmo is cheaper than a top end
they run for 300 dollars is we paid for them

sonday_2 · Jan 9, 2011

I thought were was a price for them like 500..For 300 tables just turned and started to think about one then. They could include something else too like a straight connection that way you can take it off and sell the sled while keeping the gizmo thingy and install in new sled.

sonday_2 · Jan 9, 2011

I thought there was a price for them like 500..For 300 tables just turned and started to think about one then. They could include something else too like a straight connection that way you can take it off and sell the sled while keeping the gizmo thingy and install in new sled.

Stewy · Jan 9, 2011

Outlaw525s said:
Hey anyone ever use the kit by redneck racing? I have just recently installed one on my sled. Anyway what it is for example is just say your out riding your sled hard.. and you stop at a conveinance store and gas up and get a candybar and a pop.. So aftter you eat your canday bar 15 minuets go by.So you go back outside to your sled. Now there is snow crusted up in your tunnel that has now mealted and made the antifreeze in your tunnel drop the temperature to about 0 to 25 degreess(depending on how much snow is in your tunnel) Now you go out and pull your rope and sart your sled and boom.. that 0- 25 degree water hits your cylindar and head causing the piston to expand and score.. Thus the water enters on mag side and thats what causes that side to always score.. so you not knowing this start it up and take off right away thinking its warm... watching mine when i started it my temp was at 150 degrees .. about 45 seconds later my temp was now at 80 degrees.. Its called a cold splash! now this kit consists of basicaally some hose clamps a pvc pipe with a thermstat in the inside of it.. now what it does is that it redirects the coollent and waits until its 130-140 degrees before hittign the cylimdar... now installing this on mine i tested it out hard for 3 days and also found that when i did stop for a candy bar and stuff, and noticed that from 150 to 130 is what it dropped. Im wayyy happier with a 20 degree drop then a 70 degree drop. it works great on mine and i noticed alot more hp because it now runs a normal temp of 145- 150 degrees. Now before the kit i ranabout 120 degrees all the time! anyone else run this kit? if so what do you think of it?

I find this very strange. Dynotech Research is working with Boyesen on a prototype billet impeller to increase the velocity of the coolant due to overheating. Most dragons run too hot and can have DET issues or the ECU throws more fuel at it to cool it down once over the 150 mark. Is this cold flash more of a altitude thing? I read the original write up on this product and it made me check my temp after sitting for a bit. I never see more than a 20-30 degree swing kinda curious why you would get a 70 degree drop. Just asking not a dig. Most of the race sleds run 80-100. They run better in this range. The polaris t-stat is a 120 why would you want to push it up to 130-150. Mine runs best 125-135 range.

Outlaw525s · Jan 9, 2011

Stewy said:
I find this very strange. Dynotech Research is working with Boyesen on a prototype billet impeller to increase the velocity of the coolant due to overheating. Most dragons run too hot and can have DET issues or the ECU throws more fuel at it to cool it down once over the 150 mark. Is this cold flash more of a altitude thing? I read the original write up on this product and it made me check my temp after sitting for a bit. I never see more than a 20-30 degree swing kinda curious why you would get a 70 degree drop. Just asking not a dig. Most of the race sleds run 80-100. They run better in this range. The polaris t-stat is a 120 why would you want to push it up to 130-150. Mine runs best 125-135 range.

Stewey i found this strange also but i figured i would give it a goood test.. now i dont know what my altitude but i run 68s in my sled... im located in sd and thats where i ride my sled. (09 Dragon 155) I also found that even with the temp running that 130-150 my sled became more crisp and all my buddies around here experiance that 60-70 degree drop.. it varies from how long you sit somewhere.. i also read that in a cfi motor the hottoer it is the more crisp it will run... now im not saying too hot but just warm.. the hot light comes on at like 210?? i think.. im perferctly okay with it running at 150... also i love the kit and it is easy to install. its well worth the 250 i paid for it. Goodluck

PaulAnd · Jan 9, 2011

Redneck racing states that cfi 800 needs to run at 160 according to polaris. If det happens around 180-190? hot light on at 200 too hot imo. My assault would be very close to overheating all the time. I have the Gizmo kit (great idea) but afraid to put it on..would like a little more wiggle room with my temps.. like sitting at a road crossing watching my temps go up.

wellfed777 · Jan 9, 2011

outlaw
thanks for the update and test
i read about the gizmo and thought i'd watch my temps and as you say i'd shut it off and 10 min. later i'd start it up and watch the temp go from 140-150 drop to 95-100 so its for sure getting a shot of cold water

but it got me thinking and it seems like there maybe other factors to consider
like the temp sensor is reading the water not the engine parts i mean what about the fact that the whole engine is still warm-hot ? so maybe the water coming in from the coolers is way colder but is that having the expanding/contracting effect on the cylinders/pistons when they will be heating the water when in contact?

don't get me wrong i think Innovation is the key to better products
and i'm glad people are thinking and biulding

my last thought is if the cold shot is a major problem then why don't all the other sleds have simalar problems ?

just thinking out loud here folks not meant to offend :face-icon-small-hap

Stewy · Jan 9, 2011

Outlaw525s said:
Stewey i found this strange also but i figured i would give it a goood test.. now i dont know what my altitude but i run 68s in my sled... im located in sd and thats where i ride my sled. (09 Dragon 155) I also found that even with the temp running that 130-150 my sled became more crisp and all my buddies around here experiance that 60-70 degree drop.. it varies from how long you sit somewhere.. i also read that in a cfi motor the hottoer it is the more crisp it will run... now im not saying too hot but just warm.. the hot light comes on at like 210?? i think.. im perferctly okay with it running at 150... also i love the kit and it is easy to install. its well worth the 250 i paid for it. Goodluck

I run the same weights so we are comparable. Keep us informed how your sled runs now that this is installed. Polaris should give us all R&D pay. PC5,shock valving,cooling,clutching, what else can we fix. Looking forward to your real world updates.

Outlaw525s · Jan 9, 2011

Stewy said:
I run the same weights so we are comparable. Keep us informed how your sled runs now that this is installed. Polaris should give us all R&D pay. PC5,shock valving,cooling,clutching, what else can we fix. Looking forward to your real world updates.

The extras i have on mine is this. : slp high flow air intake, slp full pipe n can, slp sparkplug wires, irodium plugs.. i have had ZERO problems and have 1200 miles right now.. Today i gave it a good thrashing because we got some fresh pow. and i kept gauge on temp the whole time and today i ran 147 most of the day and put on about 60 miles.. now i recomend this kit to everyone... when i got back i took out exhaust valves and shined my light in on the pistons.. Perfect on both sides, now idk if i have one of the "good ones" but i think that kit really made a differance.. also the new 2011 pros are doing the same thing so my buddie says..(owner of the dealer) and he will also install this kit on his pro.. but he says that the cooling sysytems are differnt so, thats why its happening to the dragons... i have no powercommander or nothing.. i always add some octane booost and oil into my tank at each fill and ive also noticed that with this kit i have gotten better gas miledge.. probley from it running at a hotter temp??? unbeleiveablehow my sled works now. i think redneck racing is deff. on to something!

mountainhorse · Jan 9, 2011

Cooling systems are actually the same... just smaller coolers on the PRO.

beamslayer · Jan 10, 2011

What is the correct temp for these efi sleds ? Are the carb models different? Everyone is deleting front coolers on the 600 because the say they run to hot 140s and up I beleive that is where my wife sled ran, now after the delete it runs 120s to 130. My 07 Dragon runs 110 to 126 most of the time is that to cold . I checked temps yesterday Temp outside was around 20s pushing 2ft powder temps never went past 126 stopped had a braut and a beer started sled 111 temp showed after sitting for 20 min with hood opened wife sled the same hood closed.Both sled have 1/2 qt of engine kool from Napa .

Snoweasel · Jan 10, 2011

I ordered 2 kits, one for my 08D8 and one for my new PRO.

I just got pistons 9 and 10 installed on the 08D8 so I'm willing to try just about anything. I was using a PCV and running oil in the tank when pistons 7 and 8 went. But I now know that I did have bad gas....the sled, not me:face-icon-small-blu

As for the increased running temperature, it will increase the likelyhood of detonation, but running good gas and/or Lucas Octane boost should take care of that. on any other 2 stroke engine, 160 deg F is not very hot.

What do other people think about the coolant bypass ?

thefullmonte · Jan 10, 2011

I have been told by a very knowledgable mechanic that the correct temp for these sleds is 160-165. Mine runs very consistantly at 126. And I'm very happy to keep it there.

All motors get hotter when you turn them off. The heat will soak the motor as it's source of cooling has stopped. That is why the fan comes on, on your car after you turn it off. Same thing.

It is very natural to see a high temp at start up with a rapid temp drop once you start moving. Just because we have a temp gauge now makes it more noticable. This same thing even happens on air cooled motors once air flow is again increased.

On this motor it could very well be a problem. Piston clearance issues could dictate that the motor needs to run higher temps for better expansion. Consistant temps are obviously preferable to constant rising and falling. This kit may also be eliminating some hot spots or cool spots however you look at it.

Snoweasel · Jan 10, 2011

Thanks Monte, that makes sense.

It seams to me that there are a number of systemic issues with the 800 CFI 4 engine. Piston to cylinder wall clearance, mid range lean issue to meet EPA, low to high injector crossover, sensitivity to poor gas and DETO to mention a few. It would then stand to reason that there is no one solution silver bullet to long engine life. From what I have experienced, you need good gas (or run octane boost), a PCIII or PCV to richen up mid range, run high quality injector oil, ensure proper clutching and finally perhaps running the coolant bypass to eliminate the cold shot issues.

I will test this on both my D8 and PRO and report back after a few hundred miles.

I mention proper clutching as under clutching (too light of a primary weight for the given elevation) appears to really mess up the ECU. The ECU manages air to fuel ratio primarily from TPS and EGT readings. A light primary clutch weight would result in a higher engine RPM than what the TPS is indicating. Higher RPM = more DETO and higher cylinder temps.

Anyways, I really appreciate everyones opinions and feedback on snowest. Monte.....you always give balanced, experienced and meaningful advice and comments.

Cheers guys,:face-icon-small-hap

Outlaw525s · Jan 10, 2011

I work at a dealer and we have now installed 7 kits including mine.. so far so good.. i reallly like my kit and im fine with running the 150 range temp. also all of the 7 kits we have installed have been wroking great! i beleve we just orderd 15 more...from the people that we have installed the kit on were only saying good things about it. ill let you all know if anything happens in the week or so. Goodluck anyother info about thiskit would be very helpful!

beamslayer · Jan 11, 2011

If I am reading this right efi run better at 160 deg why do we run a thermostat that opens at 120.If we ran a thermostat that opens at 150 deg would the sleds run at 160 ish than and only cool down to 120 while sitting still would that make the cold shot not so sever. Just a thought

Snoweasel · Jan 11, 2011

racerjb · Jan 12, 2011

Just curious. Is this a similar thing to what Ski Doo use?

Also I notice the Ski Doo version is about $25. So, I was wondering if it would work on the Polaris and do the same thing as the Gizmo. It is item number 13 in the picture.

Redneck Racing.. The Fix for the 800 Dragons

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