Twisted Turbo Pump Gas M1000

Norway · May 13, 2009

power...

See some smart talk flying back and forth here, but think maybe you guys shoot past eachother a little bit.

Engine = airpump (old snowest saying

)

The M8 has 2 x 0,4 litre pumps that draw air into the engine. You put fuel to it, ignite it and go! The old story.
M10 same-same but different, bigger pumps. Both can be improved with porting/pipes/reeds etc. to become more efficient pumps.

These pumps use the aid of ambient pressure while the turboed pumps uses pressurized exhaust to propell an extra air pump, the turbocharger.

Now, the thing is you put together a package with turbo/porting/fuel/compression/cooling etc. to get max power AND full throttle survival, whatever that boost may read on a gauge.

At altitude you are doing the same!! Dont get caught up in numbers here and trust blindly your calculations, no dyno or puter ever won fairview or haydays. Right?

The wastegate is controlling how much boost is allowed and unles you tinker with it on your way up, it should not stop charging your intake before it feels the same pressure as it did at sealevel. What happens now is the air has gotten thinner, so to achieve the same boost the turbo must spin faster.

This comes with a power loss, big or small, and it may be big depending on your turbo. Finding the turbo that makes enough top-end hp whith little to no lag will most likely loose some efficiency when it has to compensate for high alt ambient pressure.

Shain: Go easy on Rydning here, he's not where you are yet

Someday he ma take a leap of faith and throw the book away.

RS

Rms Rydning · May 13, 2009

Norway said:
Shain: Go easy on Rydning here, he's not where you are yet Someday he ma take a leap of faith and throw the book away.

RS

Well...you dont know me yet,,,and there is no books about 2 stoke turboing....Come on up riding at Riksgransen this weekend,still very great snow there.Then we can discuss this with a can of beer....

product tester · May 13, 2009

Rydning said:
You might just lett the wastegate be open on the dyno to get that 129hp run?Or was this a bone stock m1000?

this was a bone stock sled, then turboed the same sled and put it back on the dyno, this week so far we have seen 285hp at 4300 ft and 8.5 #s of boost at 7600 rpm our dyno will not hold more than that so in the next 2 weeks we are going to take the sled to a bigger dyno that will hold the hp.
We have been doing all this dyno work to test new fuel control we have found more power with more optumal fuel control.

snoughnut · May 13, 2009

RKT said:
This is the common misconception with turbos..

Simple question: Why would a engine ,with a turbo on it, not lose the same HP (or close to the same) at elevation as the N/A engine?
Air quality is Air quality no matter how it is inducted..

The M10, M8, or any engine is the same engine N/A or Boosted and will suffer the same losses from elevation..

Try driving your Diesel truck from UT to MN and watch the boost levels climb as you go lower in elevation.. WHY? Because the engine is making more power. The opposite is true also.. Drive from MN to UT and watch your boost levels get lower as you rise in elevation..

The difference is that you can compensate for this air issue by adding more boost.. but the engine is still suffering from the same power losses regardless of its induction method.

Try running a M8 Turbo at 8PSI on 91 octane in MN and see how far you get.

There is no question that any forced induction has the ability to make up for power that is lost from elevation increases.. But this comes inthe form of MORE pressure/boost... To state that the boosted engine does not lose the same,or near the same, power from less active air as the N/A engine is just not correct.

Kelsey

Interesting.

If I'm set to 8psi at sealevel...what happens at 9000feet?
WOT is WOT, but I should hit 8psi faster at sealevel than at 9000 feet.
Right?

If I can achieve 8psi at 1/2 throttle at sealevel, I must need need more throttle at 9000 feet.

On a normally aspirated sled the power loss (responsiveness) is quite noticeable....catwalking at the trailer, sloggin' at the top. When I nail it at lower elevations it's BRAAP....BRAAP, at higher elevations it's Brahp, Brahp.

On a turbo, there must be some responsiveness lost as well. Clutching compensates for power loss, due to elevation. On some turbos, you are more likely only concerned with clutching to keep the sled from over revving....I don't change clutching at all from 2500ft to 9000 feet.

BUT, on all sleds, there is a sweet spot....to get back to that 8psi with less throttle, should I gear down at higher elevations?...or are you saying by porting can I get more fuel to the sled quicker and achieve the same thing?

Lucky Lyle · May 13, 2009

snoughnut said:
Interesting.

If I'm set to 8psi at sealevel...what happens at 9000feet?
WOT is WOT, but I should hit 8psi faster at sealevel than at 9000 feet.
Right?

If I can achieve 8psi at 1/2 throttle at sealevel, I must need need more throttle at 9000 feet.

On a normally aspirated sled the power loss (responsiveness) is quite noticeable....catwalking at the trailer, sloggin' at the top. When I nail it at lower elevations it's BRAAP....BRAAP, at higher elevations it's Brahp, Brahp.

On a turbo, there must be some responsiveness lost as well. Clutching compensates for power loss, due to elevation. On some turbos, you are more likely only concerned with clutching to keep the sled from over revving....I don't change clutching at all from 2500ft to 9000 feet.

BUT, on all sleds, there is a sweet spot....to get back to that 8psi with less throttle, should I gear down at higher elevations?...or are you saying by porting can I get more fuel to the sled quicker and achieve the same thing?

Its not porting that helps a turbo its port timing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
same with na if a motor is over ported to high of timing then at higher elev the motor gets lazy alot of motor builders use high compression heads to bandaid this, and it does help but is not a affective as the right port hight and lower compression.

Rms Rydning · May 14, 2009

product tester said:
this was a bone stock sled, then turboed the same sled and put it back on the dyno, this week so far we have seen 285hp at 4300 ft and 8.5 #s of boost at 7600 rpm our dyno will not hold more than that so in the next 2 weeks we are going to take the sled to a bigger dyno that will hold the hp.
We have been doing all this dyno work to test new fuel control we have found more power with more optumal fuel control.

Well if so, then you have more than twice as much hp with only half the pressure......
285-129=156hp gain with only 8,5psi boost....try to think comon sence here.Thats 18hp/psi...

If so I`m not gona argue with you anymore...its impossible.....
BTW: I have heard you are a very good rider.

ccpowder · May 14, 2009

Rydning said:
Well if so, then you have more than twice as much hp with only half the pressure......
285-129=156hp gain with only 8,5psi boost....try to think comon sence here.Thats 18hp/psi....

He never said it was a stock motor with just the turbo added. The port timing is changed (not ported), the exhaust outlet is larger than stock and an additional set of injectors is added. With the changes, the motor is more efficient with the turbo, thus the big HP numbers.

Norway · May 14, 2009

Lucky Lyle said:
Its not porting that helps a turbo its port timing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
same with na if a motor is over ported to high of timing then at higher elev the motor gets lazy alot of motor builders use high compression heads to bandaid this, and it does help but is not a affective as the right port hight and lower compression.

Port timing helping a turbo engine?? How?

First thought is to say the complete oposite. To help a turbo keep the port timing pretty much stock, but port from intake through exhaust with attention to flow (surface + "aerodynamics).

This, IF DONE CORRECTLY, will let the turbo put more air into the engine on the same boost number. And since boost=pressure=heat that would help things. Yes? No?

RS

jijohans · May 14, 2009

Norway said:
Shain: Go easy on Rydning here, he's not where you are yet Someday he ma take a leap of faith and throw the book away.

RS

Norway: I'm not sure that you are aware of what knowledge Rydning got...Do you know him? It's easy to sit here and ingratiate with the "big" boys from the US...

Just my 2 cents...

WyoBoy1000 · May 14, 2009

This is funny. The people that "think"(just as reference) a lbs of boost is 10 hp are in the wrong decade. Not pointing fingers at anyone here, but it seems to be what everyone says when they start talking boost. Rather some of the builders are just on the verge of creating monsters out of what was nothing.

Norway · May 15, 2009

jijohans said:
Norway: I'm not sure that you are aware of what knowledge Rydning got...Do you know him? It's easy to sit here and ingratiate with the "big" boys from the US...

Just my 2 cents...

Maybe.. Do you know Shain?

Nuff about that, was just a friendly jab. Me and Rydning will probably pick up this subject over a few beers at riksgränsen next season:beer;:beer;

But People are starting to find more power by finally letting go of 40-50 year old "schoolbook" thinking.

If I told you my port timing you would say "no way" and "it wont idle", "wont trail ride" and will be "a gas hog". And you would call it well known facts.
Well, I ride the sled so what would I know?

RS

Rms Rydning · May 17, 2009

ccpowder said:
He never said it was a stock motor with just the turbo added. The port timing is changed (not ported), the exhaust outlet is larger than stock and an additional set of injectors is added. With the changes, the motor is more efficient with the turbo, thus the big HP numbers.

Well isnt changing the hole case????And if this is the 1200 turbo he owns,then the numbers are correct.Then He could have said so and the tread would turned out totally diffrent.I gess you gays like to fun in here then...

jijohans · May 17, 2009

product tester said:
this was a bone stock sled, then turboed the same sled and put it back on the dyno, this week so far we have seen 285hp at 4300 ft and 8.5 #s of boost at 7600 rpm our dyno will not hold more than that so in the next 2 weeks we are going to take the sled to a bigger dyno that will hold the hp.
We have been doing all this dyno work to test new fuel control we have found more power with more optumal fuel control.

Isn't it a bone stock sled we are talking about??? Read the first to line "product tester" wrote...

ccpowder · May 17, 2009

The stock sled tested for the baseline was Bone stock. The Turbo 1000 was a 1000 motor turboed. That means it had the port timing adjusted, additional injectors and bigger exhaust outlet per the standard Twisted Turbo 1000 kit.

You guys must be related to Tetonice!! Read the ****ing posts better!!

Rms Rydning · May 17, 2009

ccpowder said:
The stock sled tested for the baseline was Bone stock. The Turbo 1000 was a 1000 motor turboed. That means it had the port timing adjusted, additional injectors and bigger exhaust outlet per the standard Twisted Turbo 1000 kit.

You guys must be related to Tetonice!! Read the ****ing posts better!!

Originally Posted by product tester
this was a bone stock sled, then turboed the same sled and put it back on the dyno, this week so far we have seen 285hp at 4300 ft and 8.5 #s of boost at 7600 rpm our dyno will not hold more than that so in the next 2 weeks we are going to take the sled to a bigger dyno that will hold the hp.
We have been doing all this dyno work to test new fuel control we have found more power with more optumal fuel control.

How do you comprehend this post????Do you think we are psychic?

ccpowder · May 18, 2009

Rydning said:
How do you comprehend this post????Do you think we are psychic?

Nope, but you could be a little better informed before you get on here calling bull****.

ccpowder · May 18, 2009

LOL I love this Rep crap. Someone gives me negative Rep and leaves a repsonse "real classy". The problem I have is people ask about Twisted Turbo M1000 kits. Shain, the owner, comes on and posts numbers and testing they have been doing. Instantly, these Snowest Bozo's start saying no way, whatever, couldn't be stock, whatever.... No one thought to ask Shain, "what does your turbo kit entail and how are you getting the big numbers over stock?" Sick of people just sitting behind their screens crybabying. If you dont believe it, come ride with Shain. His sleds run very well as you will see in a number of videos coming out next year.

ccpowder · May 18, 2009

product tester said:
this was a bone stock sled, then turboed the same sled and put it back on the dyno

Then turboed. Guess what Dorothy, its not stock anymore!!

jijohans · May 18, 2009

ccpowder said:
Then turboed. Guess what Dorothy, its not stock anymore!!

But this was a bone stock m10000 that was turboed? No it wasn't!
Just a turbo kit and voila 85hp @ 5psi?

Sounds to good to be true...
But what the h... do I know, I just realistic and use common sense...

And no details begin to come on the table.

Norway · May 18, 2009

ccpowder said:
The stock sled tested for the baseline was Bone stock. The Turbo 1000 was a 1000 motor turboed. That means it had the port timing adjusted, additional injectors and bigger exhaust outlet per the standard Twisted Turbo 1000 kit.

You guys must be related to Tetonice!! Read the ****ing posts better!!

Aint that a tad more than just slapping on the turbo?? Please dont flame me, I just read the ****ing post a little better... LOL.

RS

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