TRS Clutching [ PART TWO ]

aksledjunkie · Jan 31, 2017

Mountainhorse note:

Continued from this thread:
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424500&page=4

I've moved/continued the very good thread here for continued reading.

I'm leaving for a couple weeks but when I get back I'll be trying this setup. Loving my current setup but since you guys all came from that to what you're running now, figure I gotta try it. I'm currently down to 77.8 grams which is significantly lower than anyone else I know of here in AK. So I'll give some sealevel elevation feedback 3 weekends from now. Excited to tinker.

562xp · Jan 31, 2017

tdbaugha said:
Excellent information! Our first Silber convert! Haha.

Couple things: Was this testing at 3700' on flat ground? What I am finding is you pick up a 100 or so RPM when you get it on a slope and load it that way. So are you going to throw in the 7# spring for the 6k-8k elevation then?

As far as alignment goes, I have a stack of about .230" worth of washers behind the secondary. And am floating it .050". This gives me a .145" gap in between the front of the secondary clutch and the SLP 20-191 bar. Belt witness marks match inside to outside so I THINK this is as good as we can get with this motor clocked in the chassis out of parallel. I'm not running any extra motor mounts either.

That looks like a quality piece. But we set our clutch alignment up with the factory bar (matches this one) and found it to be pretty significantly off.

Yes it was on flat ground. Need to make sure it was in the ballpark on rpm. I'll try seven lbs when i get up to around 7k. I've been running it at 5 lbs for the elevation i normally ride. On the belt it is close, but need to pick up the tool to get it better.

tdbaugha · Jan 31, 2017

Thanks mountainhorse! These are the threads that make snowest great. Glad we can share it with all members!

Sunvang · Feb 5, 2017

Hi. I have read both threads now, and I am very curios to try this setup. But i am at low elevation, 2000-3500ft, and i have understood that this applies the hig elevation riders.

But, have anyone done his setup with low elevation?
How off was it, and what changes did you have to make?
Is there any alternatives to the lighting weights? Im afraid they are to light for me, i am at 6lbs now, but im going to turn it up to around 10lbs.

This is my current setup, pulls good when the turbo engades and holds rpm at around 8300 well, but i feel like it is a little slow and booring in the bottom end, so i would like to get better pull in the start.

10-76 Polaris weights
140-340 primary spring
160-260 secondary spring
42-48 helix

Sorry for the many questions, hope someone will take the time to reply me.

Thanks, Tor

ez-ryder · Feb 5, 2017

Sunvang
I was always of the opinion that only weights are what you change with elevation.
Maybe others can answer that too.

There are other turbo weights available.
Mds, indy specialties etc. Or modified 10 series is another route.
Some of these guys running this setup suggest that you have to have true lightening weights.

Start another thread or post in the turbo clutching thread. Myself and others can suggest spring changes with your current helix.
I don't want change the direction of this thread.

562xp · Feb 8, 2017

With the 165-310 spring in the primary what was your engagement rpm?

tdbaugha · Feb 8, 2017

~4000 RPM with 76 grams and 165 start
~4000 RPM with 74 grams and 150 start
~3900 RPM with 72.5 grams and 140 start
~4200 RPM with 71 grams and 150 start

All buttery smooth with proper belt to sheave and deflection

djarvis · Feb 8, 2017

tdbaugha i see your down to 71 grams of weight running 9psi, how light of weight do you think you'll get to if only running 7-8 psi?

tdbaugha · Feb 9, 2017

Probably 67-68 grams or so. Just guessing but that would be close from what I've seen so far.

I also picked up a 125-175 secondary spring to try. That will drive me down even lower. Jury is still out whether the lighter springs than Tony's 140-220 work better or worse. They certainly upshift fast though! Wow.

I need to get some 68 ish gram weights and put in that secondary spring and a 140-285 primary spring see what happens.

FWIW, Tony runs a 100-150 secondary spring in one of his NA sleds.

Tewstroke · Feb 9, 2017

Correction

I'm trying out the TRS clutching and went out the first time last weekend.

2016 Axys 2.6 x 163. MTN TK TURBO. TKI belt drive-27/63. 8-tooth AVID drivers.
200# rider.
9 psi boost
6000'

76 gram Lightning weights
165-310 primary spring
.030" shimmed using Gates 45C4553 belt

46-32 F / 57/32 F ER helix
140-220 spring

Smooth engagement at 4000 rpm with proper belt deflection.
8250 rpm in 2 ' heavier snow.

Plan to increase boost to 10 psi this weekend to increase rpm.

Edit:

I meant to say, 46-32F / 46 - 34F ER Helix ,
NOT a 57.

Tewstroke

tdbaugha · Feb 9, 2017

Tewstroke said:
I'm trying out the TRS clutching and went out the first time last weekend.

2016 Axys 2.6 x 163. MTN TK TURBO. TKI belt drive-27/63. 8-tooth AVID drivers.
200# rider.
9 psi boost
6000'

76 gram Lightning weights
165-310 primary spring
.030" shimmed using Gates 45C4553 belt

46-32 F / 57/32 F ER helix
140-220 spring

Smooth engagement at 4000 rpm with proper belt deflection.
8250 rpm in 2 ' heavier snow.

Plan to increase boost to 10 psi this weekend to increase rpm.

Can you post some pictures of you straight 48 setup and the TRS setup?

Tewstroke · Feb 10, 2017

Straight 40 vs 46-32F ER Helix

The first photo is using the Dalton's with straight 48.

The second photo is using the Lightning weights . 76 g TRS and the custom helix ( 46-32F / 46-34F ER)

Sorry the photos are rotated.
Maybe I was lodged in a tree hole, again!LOL

Tewstroke

Edit: Title should read " Straight 48, NOT 40

TRS · Feb 10, 2017

Darrell, are these pics of the same sled? I see one clutch has e start.

Tewstroke · Feb 10, 2017

Same sled. Different clutches.

I was waiting for my Axys' e-start clutch to come back from Cascade Clutch. So, I rode with the clutch from my '13 Pro loaded with the Dalton weights. When it dumps, you gotta find a way to ride!!

I see now that the comparison would be more meaningful if done on the same clutch. I'll have to ask Dave what sheave angle the balanced and trued Axys clutch now has vs the Pro.

However, they would still have to be shimmed differently to run the Lightning weights vs the Dalton adjustables. I don't have the tools to be re-shimming frequently.

They were different belts too. The first clutch photo was with an Axys stock Polaris belt. The second was with the Gates 45C4553.

So, it was just a rough comparison.

Go ahead and point out your observations.

We are all ears and want to learn all that we can to optimize these sleds .

Tewstroke · Feb 10, 2017

The photos were also a week apart. So , it was not scientific/ methodical. We all know how much different snow conditions make.

I'll try to throw up some more pics of my clutch tomorrow at a bit higher boost and give an idea of clutch temps.

TRS · Feb 10, 2017

Darrell,
You are correct apples and oranges.
The sheave angles are different on the AXYS and PRO clutches. Unless the 13 sheaves were machined.
The Gates belt also changes how you read your clutch/belt slip.
Did you gear the AXYS down? If not, your shifting further out in the last pic.

The bottom pic looks pretty good. Interested what the witness marks on your belt tell about your offset.

Tewstroke · Feb 10, 2017

Gearing is TKI 27/63 , but, I changed to 8-tooth AVID drivers due to ratcheting in our heavy snow when hooking up hard .

djarvis · Feb 11, 2017

TRS you mention the gates belt changes how you read clutch/belt slip. Can you explain the difference you are seeing compared to polaris belts?

TRS · Feb 11, 2017

djarvis said:
TRS you mention the gates belt changes how you read clutch/belt slip. Can you explain the difference you are seeing compared to polaris belts?

The Gates belt grips harder. Look at the pictured clutch faces. You can see where the Polaris belt is giving up grip. The brown/gray areas on the clutch. It gives you insight of where your helix and spring combo along with gearing is leaving performance on the table.
The Gates belt is harder to read because it grips so well. The face on the Gates setup is pretty clean. Don't know how many miles are on that setup. Considering it was a good snow day, looks good.
You can also read how much heat your belt is witnessing when looking at the sides of your belt. Your belt reflects if your offset is correct also. The marks should be uniform. The Polaris belt in the picture is more distinct in regards to reading the clutch offset. If your engine is moving around a lot it will make it difficult to get a good reading.

polaris_guy13 · Feb 11, 2017

Maybe a little off topic but in line with clutching. What kinds of temps do people see in terms of belt temp and sheave temperatures after a long pull?

TRS Clutching [ PART TWO ]

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