Alpha vs. Mountain Cat

zimmy44 · Feb 18, 2019

Hi all,

Was just hoping to get some of your expertise and opinions. Looking for guys who have ridden both the alpha and a mountain cat or hardcore.

I am considering getting rid of my alpha for next year and going back to a mountain cat or a hardcore. Don't get me wrong, the alpha is a amazing sled, especially in the right conditions! However, the issue I am having is it is so easy to ride that it almost hard to ride.. It's so reactive that I often find myself screwing up. Now, it might just be that I need more seat time on it to get it dialed in.

I just felt it was easier to hold tight technical lines with my old twin rail sleds. Can any of you guys with the mountain cat or hardcore weigh in? As always, thanks for your time and input! It's greatly appreciated!

turboless terry · Feb 18, 2019

To me, the alpha is a quicker handling and easier handling mountain cat. You just need more time on the alpha. I love the quicker handling. If you don't then go to the mountain cat. There is a learning curve with the alpha. Just need to get used to it.

CO 2.0 · Feb 18, 2019

I'd rather ride my Alpha over a stock Mountain Cat. I like the overall feel and predictability of my Mountain Cat with elevate kit more than my Alpha. But the traction and track on the alpha is hard to beat. Would really like to get that track on my Mountain Cat.

cpa · Feb 18, 2019

I've rode my alpha all year but on Saturday let one of my kids ride it and I rode my 18 MC again. I love the alpha but it made me realize how good the MC is too. If I was 20 again instead of 40 it would be the alpha all the way. Sadly I'm not as quick and nimble as I once was and the alpha does react super quick and you have to stay ahead of it. You wont be unhappy which ever way you go that's for sure. Its amazing what the machines will do in this day and age.

Bcpappy · Feb 18, 2019

I am constantly in the stage of learning how the alpha reacts to input as the snow conditions are changing. The first bit of it was me turning into trees and not being ready to correct it as it turns so sharp so fast. The traction it gets is ridiculous that it's so good. The amount of trees I have clipped because it turns too easy is becoming about equal to the amount of trees I have been able to miss in really tight places. As stated before, it's a learning curve. I have found throttle control while using the brake and way less shifting your weight compared to what you use to ride has been helping. I feel I no longer have to ride the **** out the sled and throw it around as much, but old habits can be hard to break.

Frostbite · Feb 18, 2019

I know what you mean, I rode Yamaha four stroke mountain sleds for years and when I sold them and bought an M8. I was dang near pulling it over on top of me with every maneuver. Yes, old habits do die hard.

zimmy44 · Feb 20, 2019

cpa said:
I've rode my alpha all year but on Saturday let one of my kids ride it and I rode my 18 MC again. I love the alpha but it made me realize how good the MC is too. If I was 20 again instead of 40 it would be the alpha all the way. Sadly I'm not as quick and nimble as I once was and the alpha does react super quick and you have to stay ahead of it. You wont be unhappy which ever way you go that's for sure. Its amazing what the machines will do in this day and age.

Thanks for the reply! My opinion is the exact opposite of yours. In my honest opinion, I feel like the alpha was created to market towards older and below average riders (not at all trying to take a shot at your age here!). Most guys riding the mountain want to be able to carve, side hill, and do some craving. The alpha makes it undoubtedly easier for anyone to get the sled up on edge. Essentially it's makes a below average ride instantly better in the regards I mentioned above. I haven't ridden a 18 or newer twin rail, but my old twin rail was much easier to get it to maintain the lines I wanted. I had to ride with more momentum but I felt it was much more predictable!

zimmy44 · Feb 20, 2019

CO 2.0 said:
I'd rather ride my Alpha over a stock Mountain Cat. I like the overall feel and predictability of my Mountain Cat with elevate kit more than my Alpha. But the traction and track on the alpha is hard to beat. Would really like to get that track on my Mountain Cat.

I 100% agree with you. The track is unreal and will do some amazing things. I still prefer a 2.6" track though. The 3" just seems to dig too much at times where a 2.6 lifts and floats. Depending upon what cat comes out with Friday. I may switch back to a mountain cat or hardcore with a 163 and swap it with a 2.6 inch track.

I still think the alpha was designed to make below average riders instantly better because everyone wants to be able to carve and sidehull.

jakey-boy · Feb 20, 2019

zimmy44 said:
Thanks for the reply! My opinion is the exact opposite of yours. In my honest opinion, I feel like the alpha was created to market towards older and below average riders (not at all trying to take a shot at your age here!). Most guys riding the mountain want to be able to carve, side hill, and do some craving. The alpha makes it undoubtedly easier for anyone to get the sled up on edge. Essentially it's makes a below average ride instantly better in the regards I mentioned above. I haven't ridden a 18 or newer twin rail, but my old twin rail was much easier to get it to maintain the lines I wanted. I had to ride with more momentum but I felt it was much more predictable!

LOL Did you just call me old and a below average rider? Sounds like you need to push the boundaries of what the Alpha can really do... It is more than a marketing gimmick. Same rider on each and the Alpha is going to do more I would put money on it.

Chewy22 · Feb 20, 2019

zimmy44 said:
I 100% agree with you. The track is unreal and will do some amazing things. I still prefer a 2.6" track though. The 3" just seems to dig too much at times where a 2.6 lifts and floats. Depending upon what cat comes out with Friday. I may switch back to a mountain cat or hardcore with a 163 and swap it with a 2.6 inch track.

I still think the alpha was designed to make below average riders instantly better because everyone wants to be able to carve and sidehull.

You will not find many that think the 2.6 is better then a 3. Maybe that is the case for Poo but seems like hands down the majority like the 3 over the 2.6 on the Cats. Type of snow you typically ride probably plays a factor.

jakey-boy · Feb 20, 2019

Chewy22 said:
You will not find many that think the 2.6 is better then a 3. Maybe that is the case for Poo but seems like hands down the majority like the 3 over the 2.6 on the Cats. Type of snow you typically ride probably plays a factor.

The 3" cat track is 100% better than the 2.6 cat track. Now if you could get a 2.6 without the fingers that make it trench so bad then maybe it would be a different conversation. I still haven't tried cutting the fingers off my wife's 2.6 but that track has noticeably worse floatation than all of my 3" have.

Polaris is a totally different story the 2.6 is definitely better than the 3.

zimmy44 · Feb 20, 2019

jakey-boy said:
LOL Did you just call me old and a below average rider? Sounds like you need to push the boundaries of what the Alpha can really do... It is more than a marketing gimmick. Same rider on each and the Alpha is going to do more I would put money on it.

Haha no! Not at all what I meant!! You could probably out ride me any day of the week. I could post the video from the reveal last year where the explicitly say it makes the average guy far better than he is. So you can't tell me there isn't some marketing there.

As far as the track, you are probably right. The polaris, 2.6 is forsure better than 3", burandt has has videos explaining why he thinks that.

Beyond a few of my own doubts of the alpha, the only reason I wonder about the alpha is, some of the best cat riders I know of, who aren't sponsored, are still riding 18 and 19 twin rail setups. I'm not saying the the alpha is junk. Quite frankly it is amazing. I've never ridden a sled that hooks up and maneuvers so fast. I'm just saying for me personally, I think a hardcore might be easier to ride.

jakey-boy · Feb 20, 2019

zimmy44 said:
Haha no! Not at all what I meant!! You could probably out ride me any day of the week. I could post the video from the reveal last year where the explicitly say it makes the average guy far better than he is. So you can't tell me there isn't some marketing there.

As far as the track, you are probably right. The polaris, 2.6 is forsure better than 3", burandt has has videos explaining why he thinks that.

Beyond a few of my own doubts of the alpha, the only reason I wonder about the alpha is, some of the best cat riders I know of, who aren't sponsored, are still riding 18 and 19 twin rail setups. I'm not saying the the alpha is junk. Quite frankly it is amazing. I've never ridden a sled that hooks up and maneuvers so fast. I'm just saying for me personally, I think a hardcore might be easier to ride.

Im just giving you crap haha.

You are reffering primarily to Caleb I am guessing. If you ask him there are a couple of reasons for that 1) He already had the 18s and is tired of buying new sleds and getting killed on resale when you beat them like he does with no factory backing. and 2) He wanted to see how the Alpha held up before he got one. He lost most of a season to an Axys he couldnt keep on the snow which is why he made the switch to Cat anyway. So wasnt making that mistake again. I think there are still some durability issues being worked out which is why you may still not see those guys on Alpha's next year but if you aren't breaking yours I guarantee the Alpha is the ticket even for the most technical riders.

I am definitely curious to get some seat time on the Elevate setups on both a twin rail and an Alpha because I definitely think that is going to be the next step for guys that want to get even more technical.

ltmfb · Feb 20, 2019

As a new rider that has a 19 MC, and had some time on an Alpha this past weekend, I can tell you that the Alpha did not make me any better, or make it easier to ride a sled.

In fact, I felt it more difficult to ride, less planted, more tempermental. Harder to find that balance point turning, side-hilling, etc. The hardest part for me as a new rider, (transitioning from street bikes/track days), is the balancing act and shifting weight (front foot forward, or both feet on one side). That was much harder on the Alpha than my MC.

Yes, it hooked up a little better, but anyone can ride straight and stay on top of the snow.

I think my opinion would change if I had a few years of experience under my belt, but I don't think it would be a ground-breaking change (mono-rail) for even an average rider.

I think with skill/experience, you could do nearly anything on a MC that you could do on an Alpha. Plenty of motorsports have individuals that could out-ride 90% of us on a 10 yr old machine (motorcycle, sled, etc) simply because they have such a high level of skill. I remember a track day where a Novice racer had an old beat up R6, torn leathers, and he whoooped up on nearly everyone w/the new bikes and new technology.

Now, don't get me wrong, AC did an amazing thing stepping out and trying something different and progressing the sport, but I think it is over-marketed for a good portion of riders.

Chewy22 · Feb 20, 2019

ltmfb said:
As a new rider that has a 19 MC, and had some time on an Alpha this past weekend, I can tell you that the Alpha did not make me any better, or make it easier to ride a sled.

In fact, I felt it more difficult to ride, less planted, more tempermental. Harder to find that balance point turning, side-hilling, etc. The hardest part for me as a new rider, (transitioning from street bikes/track days), is the balancing act and shifting weight (front foot forward, or both feet on one side). That was much harder on the Alpha than my MC.

Yes, it hooked up a little better, but anyone can ride straight and stay on top of the snow.

I think my opinion would change if I had a few years of experience under my belt, but I don't think it would be a ground-breaking change (mono-rail) for even an average rider.

I think with skill/experience, you could do nearly anything on a MC that you could do on an Alpha. Plenty of motorsports have individuals that could out-ride 90% of us on a 10 yr old machine (motorcycle, sled, etc) simply because they have such a high level of skill. I remember a track day where a Novice racer had an old beat up R6, torn leathers, and he whoooped up on nearly everyone w/the new bikes and new technology.

Now, don't get me wrong, AC did an amazing thing stepping out and trying something different and progressing the sport, but I think it is over-marketed for a good portion of riders.

The Alpha is not harder to ride, it is just way easier to override compared to a twin-rail.

ltmfb · Feb 20, 2019

Chewy22 said:
The Alpha is not harder to ride, it is just way easier to override compared to a twin-rail.

Fair point.

DDECKER · Feb 20, 2019

love this thread, deep days I love my Alpa other days my twin rail is much better just my opinion, but I am old and not an aggressive rider yet maybe 1 day.

summ8rmk · Feb 20, 2019

DDECKER said:
love this thread, deep days I love my Alpa other days my twin rail is much better just my opinion, but I am old and not an aggressive rider yet maybe 1 day.

25 isn't old, ur still a baby turtle....I'm old enough to be ur daddy and I'm still young....

I find that i have a lot of energy left at the end of the Day on the Alpha! The sled will run out of gas before i do... so hard to get the 165 stuck...

skiutahcabin · Feb 21, 2019

comparison

So I am a 19' Alpha owner, have 20 days on it, I just spent a day on a 19' mountain cat, same track length, motor size, etc.

takeaway: Mountain Cat was amazing, much more capable than I expected, however not as great as the Alpha,

Also, It sucked my energy- I would say the Alpha took 1/2 the energy to ride hard. The conditions were same as we've been riding, 2 feet fresh powder. I didnt expect this, it was surprising how nimble it was, similar to the Alpha and a really great sled, but yes, took more effort.

BBP · Feb 21, 2019

How do they compare when it's not 2' of fresh fluffy powder? More specifically, 7 miles in on nasty moguls & then jumping & playing on cornices & drainages in Washington cascade snow (Tampico area). Usually 8-12" of fresh powder, but heavy. That is 80% of my riding, 2' of fluff is not common.

Alpha vs. Mountain Cat

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