Turbo kit component thread

tjc · Apr 25, 2012

i think you can almost put an additional category breakdown of high and low boost. For someone to purchase a boost-is system for 6 pounds of boost is pretty much over kill. I think many people out there running a low boost set up will say that the pure logic or Gems will work "ok".

Now dont get me wrong, and I have limited knowledge, I would have to agree that a closed loop system such as motec and others would be the cats azz. But fairly expensive and difficult to program.

Boost it and impulse seem to be great options too and very easy to use.

constech · Apr 25, 2012

Controllers

I believe MPI has a stand alone as well. I have talked to Mack about it, it is around $1200 and I have seen some posts on here about them. Just saying because I would like any information people may have on them as well. Thanx.

M5- · Apr 25, 2012

tjc said:
i think you can almost put an additional category breakdown of high and low boost. For someone to purchase a boost-is system for 6 pounds of boost is pretty much over kill. I think many people out there running a low boost set up will say that the pure logic or Gems will work "ok".

Now dont get me wrong, and I have limited knowledge, I would have to agree that a closed loop system such as motec and others would be the cats azz. But fairly expensive and difficult to program.

Boost it and impulse seem to be great options too and very easy to use.

The issue we as mountain riders have with the Gems and Prologic is the boxes haven't in the past liked being in the snow or getting any moisture near them. I can't comment on the trail world but thats why I'd steer away from one in a mountain application.

M5

gunnerthesnowman · Apr 25, 2012

Broadly speaking you can divide contollers into two main categories piggyback and standalone. I think the only complete true standalone out there and correct me if I'm wrong is Impulse, the rest are some form of piggyback system. For those of you who don't know the difference or who may be new to the whole turbo thing, a piggyback retains the original ECU and the auxiliiary fuel controller runs on top of that where a standalone replaces the entire stock unit with a new brain.

One Stop Performance has had a complete standalone ECU system on the market for many years how and it is proofing , just not in the mountains.
I run one of his engine , turbo and standalone ECU,s , i try not to come on snowest much about any fueling system , as this type of topic usually starts a !hit show.
I do agree until someone ( turbo kit builder ) gets one of these complete standalone ECU,s working flawless for mountain riding , it should not be sold to the consumer (this should go for any product , but in the turbo sled market the consumer in many cases have been the testing grounds and paying the price of advancement)
I have 5 years working with a complete standalone ECU on a 4 stroke turbo sled in the mountains , all i can say is , there is a lot involved in getting a standalone ECU tune to work in a turbo sled in the mountains and for now unless you know how and can spend the time doing your own tuning , do not go this route.
Now for the performance part of having a complete standalone ECU , all i can say is i think my sled set up works pretty good, my engine runs stock piston , no head shim (11.6:1 compression) stock head , a GT 3076 turbo ,dual stage 700cc injector , my tune is made for running C12 up to 25lbs of boost, i think it works pretty good .
I have not been around some of the other system out there now , all i know is something had to be done with the fueling system that came on my turbo kit that i got 5 years ago and this is the way i went , i try not to be so close minded as some:face-icon-small-win

M5- · Apr 25, 2012

gunnerthesnowman said:
Broadly speaking you can divide contollers into two main categories piggyback and standalone. I think the only complete true standalone out there and correct me if I'm wrong is Impulse, the rest are some form of piggyback system. For those of you who don't know the difference or who may be new to the whole turbo thing, a piggyback retains the original ECU and the auxiliiary fuel controller runs on top of that where a standalone replaces the entire stock unit with a new brain.

One Stop Performance has had a complete standalone ECU system on the market for many years how and it is proofing , just not in the mountains.
I run one of his engine , turbo and standalone ECU,s , i try not to come on snowest much about any fueling system , as this type of topic usually starts a !hit show.
I do agree until someone ( turbo kit builder ) gets one of these complete standalone ECU,s working flawless for mountain riding , it should not be sold to the consumer (this should go for any product , but in the turbo sled market the consumer in many cases have been the testing grounds and paying the price of advancement)
I have 5 years working with a complete standalone ECU on a 4 stroke turbo sled in the mountains , all i can say is , there is a lot involved in getting a standalone ECU tune to work in a turbo sled in the mountains and for now unless you know how and can spend the time doing your own tuning , do not go this route.
Now for the performance part of having a complete standalone ECU , all i can say is i think my sled set up works pretty good, my engine runs stock piston , no head shim (11.6:1 compression) stock head , a GT 3076 turbo ,dual stage 700cc injector , my tune is made for running C12 up to 25lbs of boost, i think it works pretty good .
I have not been around some of the other system out there now , all i know is something had to be done with the fueling system that came on my turbo kit that i got 5 years ago and this is the way i went , i try not to be so close minded as some:face-icon-small-win

That one totally slipped my mind and I know we talked about it before. What are your thoughts on ignition timing in general terms no particular kit or controller, leave it or vary it from stock? Could the 2012 Apex knock sensor be used for this?

M5

PS Thanks again for that block that saved me a world of grief.

gunnerthesnowman · Apr 25, 2012

M5- said:
That one totally slipped my mind and I know we talked about it before. What are your thoughts on ignition timing in general terms no particular kit or controller, leave it or vary it from stock? Could the 2012 Apex knock sensor be used for this?

M5

PS Thanks again for that block that saved me a world of grief.[/QUOTE]

Not a problem , glad to help .

BigFish BC · Apr 25, 2012

constech said:
I believe MPI has a stand alone as well. I have talked to Mack about it, it is around $1200 and I have seen some posts on here about them. Just saying because I would like any information people may have on them as well. Thanx.

is same system as impulse,i beleave paul got them going not sure if they still use his system.

BigFish BC · Apr 25, 2012

tjc said:
i think you can almost put an additional category breakdown of high and low boost. For someone to purchase a boost-is system for 6 pounds of boost is pretty much over kill. I think many people out there running a low boost set up will say that the pure logic or Gems will work "ok".

Now dont get me wrong, and I have limited knowledge, I would have to agree that a closed loop system such as motec and others would be the cats azz. But fairly expensive and difficult to program.

Boost it and impulse seem to be great options too and very easy to use.

i have tried most of them boondocker,pure logic same as gems & attitude ,the dobbec boxs would work ok for low boost guys if they were waterproof or even resitant:face-icon-small-dis.the boondocker works ok but found it tuff to get it tuned right & keep it there.i run the boost it now, it not closed loop but it works flawless.neil sends them out pre tuned so its close or dead on,i play with mine a bit but dosnt need much tweaking.they work better than anything i have yet to see on the mountain, most important they dont seem to have any real issues solid unit.:thumb::beer;

motojunkie101 · Apr 26, 2012

I run the boondocker turbo with the EBC, and so far I've had a good experience with the control box. If my A/F is running a little lean on a hot day, I make a quick adjustment and typically don't have to mess with it again. It can hold several different fuel maps, so you could have a different map for different conditions or boost levels (With the EBC it takes all of 10 seconds to change the amount of boost you run). I did notice that I have a little stumble or stutter in the lower RPMs, but it isn't anything that is going to make me run out and drop a grand or more on another system. Overall, I would give it an 8/10 but I also openly admit it is the only turbo kit I've spent any amount of time on.

As far as fuel supply...the kit uses the first generation tail tank which has been modified to fit the front mounted turbo. It uses push in rubber fittings and BD supplies an adhesive insulation to protect against heat from the turbo. My biggest complaint about the trail tank is that it fits poorly. I had to drill additional holes in the stock hood to get a decent fit, and there are large gaps along the sides. The next big complaint is the loss of your fuel gauge. Now I have to open up the lid a few times a day to make sure I'm not going to run dry. Complaint #3 is the over flow/vent line. There is nothing worse than filling up to the top with race fuel (@7.25 a gallon) and seeing it being syphoned out of the over flow and onto the ground. As for the fuel pump, the stock one is removed with the old tank, so an inline pump mounted on the right side of the engine does the job.

BOOSTIN-BAYOU · Apr 26, 2012

I have powderlites turbo with the rb3 and have been happy with it found a map that works well for me you mentioned rbr do you know if i can upgrade my rb3 to an rbr i have been very happy with this turbo set up not one problem with it

powderlites · Apr 26, 2012

EFI systems

I have worked with Rapid Bike products for a few years and they are no longer building RB3 boxes. Rapid Bike Race (RBR) is the newest with a lot of changes which I will try to explain.
1=Interpolation between columns ( smooth no steps for load or boost/TPS)
2=Pump correction that can pull or add fuel for using bigger injectors with clean throttle response.
3=Pump correction for Igniton timing control with + or - 10 degrees for a few moments which is adjustable.
4=Ignition timming maps that can pull timming for big boost and add timing for throttle response in bottom end.
5=Rev limiter on certain motors to go above stock rev limter in the last 3 columns of the map.
6=Calibration of voltages for resolution of maps.
7=Auto tuning (My Tuning Bike) with wideband sensor that can be used to build a map and and fine tune injection + or - 15 % You can set air fuel ratios in the Autotune map for each RPM or load ( boost) etc.
8=single injection ( for all cyls), upper and lower injectors can be used (dual injectors), each cyl injection (map for each cyl), switch maps on the fly, Load columns or RPM steps can be adjusted.
9=minus -100% or plus 150% injection,

BOOSTIN-BAYOU · Apr 27, 2012

so does that mean i would have to buy a complete kit to upgrade to the rbr

Redrider18 · May 6, 2012

M5- said:
Any others?

Am I missing anything?

M5

What about Full Power Performance.
Rear mount GT2554r.
Two tunnel mounted water to air inter-coolers.
Piggy back fuel controller similar to G.E.M.S.
180 HP at 5lbs. of boost can produce 200 HP at 7lbs. on pump gas (91 PON) stock motor and fuel system.
Turn key system, easy install, includes boost gauge, clutching, BOV. The only two things I added were a wideband gauge and tether kill switch.
It's a great kit with awesome throttle response and can be upgraded for more power. I figured it might be worth mentioning.
http://www.fullpowerperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=116

Turblue · Oct 13, 2012

Good read....

Tarzannr1 · Oct 13, 2012

Is there anyone that has tried a Garred turbo on a Mcx kit for Nytro?
And will a fan mounted over the intercooler on a mcx intercooler do any good?
And i have a rb3 on my Mcx kitt just to adjust timing,add some at the bottom and take some at the topp works good.
I'm also a bit curious about NM water to air intercooler, but NM have you made one for the Nytro with Mcx kit on it?
Will it work with the Mcx preecooler and with the mtx water tunnel cooler?
Is it enough space under the tunnel for the extra water cooler that is with your kit?
Maybe i will buy your water to air kit if its a bolt on kit for my Mcx kit

Tarzannr1 · Oct 16, 2012

Must say that this is a very good tread and i hope it`s not dead:wave:

TurboM700 · Oct 17, 2012

Tarzannr1 said:
Must say that this is a very good tread and i hope it`s not dead:wave:

I agree. I'm coming over from the boosted 2-stroke land and started doing research on building my own kit. As I have learned in the land of turbo 2-stroke simple is sometimes better.

What I'm thinking for this yr. Keep in mind I'm a flat lander that only gets out west 1-3 times a yr. I more or less want a good solid ride able 180hp turbo. Anything more then that I'm loosing my friends and riding alone.

Mits 16g turbo that's rear mounted. (8psi max at elevation and 4 psi and home).

Stock Motor

Non-Intercooled maybe a finned tube in the tunnel that goes from the turbo to the front of the sled to help cool the snow.

I'm thinking of trying the Push turbo system for oil and return oil for the turbo. For those that are not familar with this it use the vaccum of the dry sump to suck the oil back from the small tank right below the turbo when not under boost. As soon as boost comes on it push the oil back to he motor.

Fuel controller is one thing i'm up in the air over. I have used Boondocker and Pure Logic on my T2S before and I was happy with them but never thrilled buy them.

Boost-it would be nice but 1500 dollars is a ton of money for someone who is only going to ride 8psi.
Clutching is a big unknowing as I have never dealt with a Yamaha before.
Anyone have thoughts so far on my set-up. Keep in mind this is not my first rodeo and I have built well over 10 T2S kits before.

Thanks
Mike

NM · Oct 17, 2012

Tarzannr1 said:
Is there anyone that has tried a Garred turbo on a Mcx kit for Nytro?
And will a fan mounted over the intercooler on a mcx intercooler do any good?
And i have a rb3 on my Mcx kitt just to adjust timing,add some at the bottom and take some at the topp works good.
I'm also a bit curious about NM water to air intercooler, but NM have you made one for the Nytro with Mcx kit on it?
Will it work with the Mcx preecooler and with the mtx water tunnel cooler?
Is it enough space under the tunnel for the extra water cooler that is with your kit?
Maybe i will buy your water to air kit if its a bolt on kit for my Mcx kit

Yes we can do MCX WTA but we use the stock tunnel cooler for a heat exchanger.
Maybe you could add extrusions to the running boards and use them as the heat exchanger. Can't see why it wouldnt work.
Or find an old Apex tunnel and use the coolers that went under the boards. There are always options if you want to get creative.

constech · Oct 17, 2012

I have a 08 Nytro with stage 2 MPI supercharger running about 15 lbs. boost I have been tinkering with the clutching and think I finally have it right although might have to tweek since I just installed ne 162" track. I love every part of the sled except the delay or hesitation I get in the transition between low and high rpm's. I am running the GEMS fuel controller that came with the pump. It is very hard and confusing to set and no matter where I have it set it does not solve the problem. Any ideas on how to fix this problem. MPI tells me to run 110 fuel, but it is worse when I do. 105 seems to run much better. Are other fuel controlers better? Is a stand alone unit the answer, MPI says they are going to reflash ecu,s but as busy as they are I bet they do not get it done. I am nmot sure that fixes this anyway. Ideas?

irondave86 · Oct 17, 2012

Constech I have the same sled as you. Stand alone would defiantly make your sled run smoother. But if your gonna spend that kind of money, I'd look into the "boost it" fuel controller. Not only would it fix your problem, but you would get better fuel economy than you get now. The MPI standalone systems use bigger injectors which isn't gonna do anything to help the superchargers already bad fuel economy. In fact It will make it worse. I'm installing a boost it controller on my sled now. I can't wait to see the sleds full potential.

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