clutch alignment and float

mountainhorse · Dec 30, 2012

Ak... good post... but one thing with the adhesive... if the part is moved... you need to remove and reglue... it is no longer stuck... that is a much different scenario than heating the parts, not disturbing them and letting cool.

I've used your suggestion last year after reading one of your posts on a nearly impossible to align Dragon Belt eater... after doing your "trick" ... 1700 miles on the same belt... Pretty cool!

.

geo · Dec 31, 2012

Thanx AK and MH.
My sled was .085" out in the proper direction for parallelism and a little long on center to center out of the box. So figure it will be spot on the next time I check those two dimentions. It's the designed off-set for the C to C and belt length-width I am having trouble finding.

My clutches run very nice for temp (top sprocket on belt drive is way hotter, may add a cooling duct there lol) but I'm finding the stock clutching a little light on loading.
As soon as the guests leave lol and holidays are over, I will be adding a bit more power and changing all the clutching lol. It's going to be really hard to do this time because the sled has been so much fun as is. But that's my other hobby lol.

68, if it helps. I pulled .060" out form behind the secondary and the same from behind the bolt (left me at .060" factory float). That's what the SLP tool told me to do.
I did the magic marker thing yesterday and showed right on. Primary warmer than secondary. Hmm, which one to add or subtract from to add load lol. I like working with the secondary.

DLynn · Dec 31, 2012

Our local dealer doesn't touch the clutch setup from the factory. I get new sleds in all the time that have 3/8" to 1/2" misalignment on the clutch's. I wonder why the factory is so far off to start with.
I can see that the dealer can say "not my problem" because they are selling belts to the end users. However this is just another case of high speed production.

mountainhorse · Dec 31, 2012

DLynn,

I've not seen that much varaince in the sleds I've checked... but anything is possible.

What are you using to check this with?

Also..The factory builds in a bit of "kick" into the factory alignment to deal with the the slight engine movement under load.. always has.

.

rmscustom · Dec 31, 2012

geo said:
Thanx AK and MH.
My sled was .085" out in the proper direction for parallelism and a little long on center to center out of the box. So figure it will be spot on the next time I check those two dimentions. It's the designed off-set for the C to C and belt length-width I am having trouble finding.

My clutches run very nice for temp (top sprocket on belt drive is way hotter, may add a cooling duct there lol) but I'm finding the stock clutching a little light on loading.
As soon as the guests leave lol and holidays are over, I will be adding a bit more power and changing all the clutching lol. It's going to be really hard to do this time because the sled has been so much fun as is. But that's my other hobby lol.

68, if it helps. I pulled .060" out form behind the secondary and the same from behind the bolt (left me at .060" factory float). That's what the SLP tool told me to do.
I did the magic marker thing yesterday and showed right on. Primary warmer than secondary. Hmm, which one to add or subtract from to add load lol. I like working with the secondary.

Geo, could you explain the magic marker thing?

sledneck_03 · Dec 31, 2012

I think the magic market thing is making lines on your clutches to see if they are fully shifting because the belt wipes of the marker.

winter brew · Dec 31, 2012

Our shop Pro would go through belts with stock clutching....alignment in polaris spec. No more belt problems with a variety of different clutch setups. They like to be loaded.

DLynn · Dec 31, 2012

mountainhorse said:
DLynn,

I've not seen that much varaince in the sleds I've checked... but anything is possible.

What are you using to check this with?

Also..The factory builds in a bit of "kick" into the factory alignment to deal with the the slight engine movement under load.. always has.

.

I use a model specific steel alignment bar that wraps the outside and inside of the fixed primary sheave and I have a SPI Universal Alignment Bar I use for the electric start models. The SPI isn't as positive of a fit but it does work ok.

TRS · Jan 1, 2013

AK, with all due respect, the chain case is not the best approach. You are adding to rolling resistance. Shafts need to be true(trued) to the chassis, all other components aligned from there.
My 2c after 20 years of blue printing snowmobile race chassis.

geo · Jan 1, 2013

I would also think parallel shafts are more important with the belt drive especially.

MH I saw that vent but it may not work when needed. You know, deep over the hood snow, 45mph track speed and only 15mph forward movement lol. Maybe springtime.

Magic marker; Mark both sheaves on primary go for a hard pull, slow down easy, stop and check length on marks left. Should be equal on both sheaves.
I have to say though I don't believe this method of checking alignment will help with a floating secondary. When I start my build I will give it a shot in the field, I'll just remove float shimming for the run.

DLynn what no. do you use for ES models with the universal bar.

TRS · Jan 1, 2013

Lets go back and look at the SPX tool in MH last picture. Doesn't anyone see a problem with fitment? Look closely at the gaps on each end of the tool and fixed sheave. Would this not lead to a misalignment issue?

DLynn · Jan 1, 2013

geo said:
I would also think parallel shafts are more important with the belt drive especially.

MH I saw that vent but it may not work when needed. You know, deep over the hood snow, 45mph track speed and only 15mph forward movement lol. Maybe springtime.

Magic marker; Mark both sheaves on primary go for a hard pull, slow down easy, stop and check length on marks left. Should be equal on both sheaves.
I have to say though I don't believe this method of checking alignment will help with a floating secondary. When I start my build I will give it a shot in the field, I'll just remove float shimming for the run.

DLynn what no. do you use for ES models with the universal bar.

First off I try not to use it at all (unless there is no other options) because I don't trust it. It claims on a Polaris to use 36 mm offset setting. Being universal it doesn't fit very well. In the grand scale it's better than nothing but for 80.00 bucks I would rather be selling them than using them. IMO I would find a steel one piece bar and stick with it. Sometime I use a tool and if it is hard to make it work then it goes into the "special" tool box in the corner.

Reg2view · Jan 1, 2013

TRS said:
Lets go back and look at the SPX tool in MH last picture. Doesn't anyone see a problem with fitment? Look closely at the gaps on each end of the tool and fixed sheave. Would this not lead to a misalignment issue?

FWIW, mine fits like glue once it's positioned correctly, it's cut to fit on all three dimensions, the edge against the clutch face is also beveled. On both the stock and Carl's cut faces. I can't attest to accuracy, other than comparing it against the SLP thin bar. Both work, the SPX is easier to check, but if you cut shims for the offset on the secondary, the SLP would be easy, too. The washers/shims for offset and float that Poo provides vary quite a bit within a size, pretty crappy consistency in quality.

TRS · Jan 1, 2013

Reg2view, you missed my point on quality control.

geo · Jan 2, 2013

DLynn said:
First off I try not to use it at all (unless there is no other options) because I don't trust it. It claims on a Polaris to use 36 mm offset setting. Being universal it doesn't fit very well. In the grand scale it's better than nothing but for 80.00 bucks I would rather be selling them than using them. IMO I would find a steel one piece bar and stick with it. Sometime I use a tool and if it is hard to make it work then it goes into the "special" tool box in the corner.

I agree 100% DL.

I have a few deadly straight edges in my box and modified one to sit properly in the Team clutches last year.
With an offset no. (is that 36mm from the tool maker or Pol) I can do the math.

I may add torque stops or arms or motor mounts if I feel the need, so I would like to set my own parallelism for what my chassis-clutching-thumb ask for.

If you do set your offset dead on do you then split the float no. you pick and give the same dimention to both sides of center? If you have the Poo tool and push in on the clutch and shim it to .060" float does that mean that .030" out from the inside shim is the correct off-set?
If you do just let it float wouldn't the helix and spring just force the secondary out onto the secondary bolt washer and lock into that position untill you release the load?

Lol. Sorry for all the questions. Participate if you want.

TRS · Apr 14, 2013

Needed to get this to the top.
I will go through my process on motor alignment later.
The jack shaft/chain case is in alignment on the Pro. The chain case does not need shimming as Polaris chassis did in the past. I check the alignment with the old Polaris alignment tool and an old style jackshaft. If you look at the pictures you will see on the Pro chain case models it is dead center. Those I have checked have been perfect. Shaft alignment is the foundation of motor alignment. I have not checked one with QD, that would be interesting.

TRS · Apr 17, 2013

A little more info. The motor strap holes have a .050" offset, you will need to drill them out to .500".
For all you DIY out there, I made a lift plate for the small blocks, makes this procedure easier and it saves the oil pump.

H2O · Apr 18, 2013

I am still looking for a simple number for offset (P85 to Team Tied). Actual distance between a straight edge on the back of the P85 (fixed sheave) to a straight edge along the front of the Tied (fixed sheave). Should be somewhere around 2.5 inches. Thanks.

bigchevrolet · Apr 19, 2013

I cannot tell you exactly but if you are facing the the snowmobile with te primary on the left secondary on the right the out side of a tied to the inside of a primary where the fix sheave meets the shaft is 1 7/16" . I apologize this my not be to helpful this info comes from team an from measuring my team alignment tied alignment bar. Maybe if you took the primary off and set it on a table you could use square stock and set it inside the primary and measure down to the table and add it to the 1 7/16. I wish I could get to my other garage to put the bar on the sled and just measure for you but I broke my leg. and am crutches without being able to put any weight via doctors orders. Very frustrating as this has been close to a record April for snow in my area in mn. I woke up to another fresh 11" of white stuff.

TRS · May 6, 2013

Here is a sled that started out over 11.6" center to center and .110" of lead in. With all the motors I have checked, only one was within Polaris spec.
Started doing this with the delivery of the 2011 Pro. Thousands of miles without any bolt or strap failures to date.
This is a simple explanation of the process.
Booth straps were drilled out to .500". Straps are then mounted back on the engine loosely, followed by mounting the motor back into the chassis. Torque up the motor mount bolts and torque arm. This will put the motor straps in a neutral position, zero directional load. Adjust the motor to your spec. and tighten the motor strap bolts while in the chassis. I built a wrench to help facilitate the tightening, but standard will work. The recoil removed helps access the mag side. Recheck your measurements. Now you are ready to remove the socket head cap screws, lift the motor and torque the motor strap bolts. Bolt the motor back in and replace all the removed parts and you should be ready to ride.
When this sled was finished it was 11.516" center to center and .08" lead in. I like any where from 0.00"-.030" lead in.