Submit weekly snow bike requests to Polaris, Ski-Doo, Arctic Cat, etc

mjgiandalia · Feb 6, 2019

I think its about time one of the major snowmobile manufacturers starts focusing on a single purpose snow bike. I know Arctic Cat tried but, the 450 4 stroke is not going to cut it. Since the biggest complaint is a lack of power and ability to climb steeper terrain, throwing a twin 600cc fuel injected 2 stroke motor that they already have into a frame engineered for a snow bike does not seem like too tall of an order.

The snow bikes lack the power/weight that the snowmobiles have. The 600cc that makes around 120hp at sea level would be sufficient for a snow bike. Not to say that they couldn't toss an 800/850 at it.

This being said I have begun to submit weekly messages to Polaris, Ski-Doo, and Arctic Cat requesting for such a build. I have received emails back on the topic saying that they will pass the message along to their design engineer team so, maybe if they notice they are getting dozens of emails each week on the topic they might do something about it. If you find yourselves with a few minutes of spare time consider submitting requests with me.

Here are some links:

https://www.polaris.com/en-us/contact-support/

https://www.ski-doo.com/form/contact-us.html

https://store.arcticcat.com/Contact/

NEWDUCK · Feb 6, 2019

Good luck Andy Dufresne! (thats not at all how I thought his name was spelt.)

On a side note I dont think the snowbike sales are anywhere close to what they need to be to invest time into a purpose built unit.

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 6, 2019

NEWDUCK said:
Good luck Andy Dufresne! (thats not at all how I thought his name was spelt.)

On a side note I dont think the snowbike sales are anywhere close to what they need to be to invest time into a purpose built unit.

This was my thought exactly, along the same lines as why Alta Motors went belly-up this past October, the sales and future sales are just NOT where they need to be to justify a manufacturer pouring money into a sub-segment of a power-sport where the numbers sold and the projected numbers that are forecast to sell are just so, so low.

Any one of the mfgr's, if they wanted, could easily make a dream snowbike but there just would not be enough made to even recoup the R&D.

I'm one that feels that my snowbike is about perfect. The only thing I need is the time to use it, and more fresh snow to ride it on.

mjgiandalia · Feb 6, 2019

I would agree that the money isn't there for the manufactures but, sparking more interest is the goal here. Not trying to get this done overnight.

My snow bike feels pretty good ripping around in the trees but, as soon as I find a big bowl, steep hill, or we get a fair amount of light snow it's just not enough.

Hawkster · Feb 6, 2019

One of the hurdles is what makes a snowmobile a snowmobile , legally . If that can not be addressed there will only be kits .
For a turn key to be a turn key wouldn't it also have to have a warranty ?

Hard to see that happening in the dirt bike world .

Some of the 600 CC sleds bone stock are running pretty close to 130 ponies so if you want a turn key look at Cat's Alpha since it comes in a 600 and 800 skid , they did what only makes sense with the skid .

Boivan sold the Snow Hawk back in 08 , they are still building the same old turn key with warranty so that might be an option too :face-icon-small-hap

That's pretty pathetic though , guess these kits could actually be the blame for the progress of a one ski .
For me the only thing that has come out of these kits is an option of skis to choose from , that I thank you .

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 6, 2019

https://www.snowmobile.com/manufacturer/polaris/boivin-s-unique-snow-hawk-innovation

Hawkster · Feb 6, 2019

Nice little read , MST I think is the ones still building the Snow Hawk . Boivan changed the look every year until his last production model in 08 that was a blue 800, 07 yellow Top Gun 800 , 06 had a bird of pray wrap and 600 Outlaw , 05 red, black, silver 600 , 04 silver and orange 600 and the orange and blue was designated to the race minded 503 fanners from the beginning .
Boivan has done more than build a turn key one ski , he set the bar so high that people are still trying to reinvent the wheel . Built as tough as a dirt bike in their natural form . That will be virtually impossible to do today with what the consumer wants .
It is also a very misunderstood machine .

More trivia , the MPEM/brain box in the liquids was only available to race sleds and the uncoupled Expert Xtreme (3 shocks) skid was never available to sleds but the coupled expert X was . He built the machine to be worked on by the owner not the shop , even came with a complete shop manual . Since it is a legal turn key it is also recognized threw the insurance companies .

If anybody should step into the market it should be Doo and Ducati , those two combined have all the information and knowledge on how to make a one ski .

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 7, 2019

From what I get from this MST website, all they do is service and repair the Snowhawks, new or even used-ones, are not being sold by them;

https://www.snowhawk.ca/about.html

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 7, 2019

Polaris owns Timbersled. They know how sales of their kits are doing.

I can't help but to think of the recently shuttered Alta Motors with the electric EXR/MXR bikes where there was just not near enough sales and predicted sales to keep the business going. Then there is Snowhawk/AD Boivin, Buell, Victory, powersports is just not growing.

I think it is hard enough for the larger/more popular snowbike kit makers to eke-out a profit, so much so that I can see them ending the sales/production not far down the road. Between global warming/climate change, lack of places to ride snowbikes, people are not flocking to the sport and us guys that have them are not buying new kits every year or even plan on buying new kits for many years, if ever.

I know the old saw, "There are no problems, only solutions" and that I'm being a true Debbie Downer(I'll never have kids, wah, wah, wah . . . " and that it is not right to immediately come up with reasons as to why it won't work rather than being optimistic, but someone has to be the voice of the industry. (ha!)

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 7, 2019

I'm just going to play, because I'm a real idiot but, here is what might work to convince those in charge that we need a purpose built, go anywhere, snowbike/snow machine;

Dear Major Manufacturer,

First, thank you for making all the awesome products you make year after year as well as all the improvements that keep on coming to make our riding around in circles on this earth so much fun. We could never have the fun we have without you.

As a group, we really want a purpose built snowbike. A single ski with a track in the back that works as well as the current trail sleds and even the powder/mountain/crossover sleds that work so well nowadays. Fuel injected. Easy starting and running in the extreme cold, and the ability for the machine to do pretty much what the mountain sleds do but with none of the effort required to do so.

If you do this, we will stop buying the "afterthought" snowbike kits that take us time to install and then remove for the dirtbikes we have and love so much. Instead of spending $5,000-$8,000+ on a kit and all the associated items we need to make our dirt-oriented bikes run in the snow, and spend a minimum of $15,000 ok, $14,998.99 on the base model of a pure snowbike with front forks that are already set up for the snow, an engine already shrouded and optimized for snow and the cold, and a track/tunnel that will allow us to both jump, land and move like SX/MX bikes do and will also go from trail to powder seamlessly.

We know you are willing to spend upwards of $50-100-million USD because that is how much it costs to get something like this up off the ground, knowing full well that the total amount of snowbike kits sold worldwide might be 2,000.

Signed,

I Love Snowbiking

NEWDUCK · Feb 7, 2019

I think you'll have better luck sending MST an email. Social media shows them still building new units. About 1 a year haha.

But really though. Mst has the platform it just needs a HUGE facelift. They need to come spend a week out west and see what needs done to a stock hawk to get it to perform.

sledr2 · Feb 7, 2019

For me the only thing that has come out of these kits is an option of skis to choose from , that I thank you .

Awesome!

mjgiandalia · Feb 7, 2019

NEWDUCK said:
I think you'll have better luck sending MST an email. Social media shows them still building new units. About 1 a year haha.

But really though. Mst has the platform it just needs a HUGE facelift. They need to come spend a week out west and see what needs done to a stock hawk to get it to perform.

I think the snowhawk is like 80% there, it does need a facelift as it is ugly. I really want to find one and ride it though. It reminds me of the Wetbike in how archaic the design is.

David24 · Feb 7, 2019

mjgiandalia said:
I think the snowhawk is like 80% there, it does need a facelift as it is ugly. I really want to find one and ride it though. It reminds me of the Wetbike in how archaic the design is.

Trust me your not missing anything. Snowhawks are heavy and do not handle well at slow speeds. I’ve owned a couple. I’d rather bolt a kit onto a 125, then ride another snow hawk.

HalfBrit · Feb 7, 2019

Ben 500RR-S said:
I'..., knowing full well that the total amount of snowbike kits sold worldwide might be 2,000.

Signed,

I Love Snowbiking

I've been wondering?? What os the true number of snowbikes? Does anybody know or have an educated guess?

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 7, 2019

I think I had read last year some time that for 2018 or 2017, that Camso had 900 units sold. Not sure about Timbersled, or Yeti-now that they were bought by Camso and had started selling again, but the numbers are very low.

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 7, 2019

David24 said:
Trust me your not missing anything. Snowhawks are heavy and do not handle well at slow speeds. I’ve owned a couple. I’d rather bolt a kit onto a 125, then ride another snow hawk.

Funny as in all the pictures, they show the rider carving it up in deep powder, all looking awesome and just so much fun. Then they talk up the 600HO and even 800cc two stroke power, only to find out that there is a darned good reason they went out of business (like Buell and then Alta) in 2008.

capulin overdrive · Feb 7, 2019

Suppose many of us were hopeful Polaris was planning on it when they bought T-sled, but guess not?

Looks like some startup will have to do it, and then they'll get bought if they succeed.

Also i'd bet the profit margins on the kits are way way higher, than on a sled? If that's the case, screwing us on over priced kits would make business sense.

HalfBrit · Feb 7, 2019

Ben 500RR-S said:
Funny as in all the pictures, they show the rider carving it up in deep powder, all looking awesome and just so much fun. Then they talk up the 600HO and even 800cc two stroke power, only to find out that there is a darned good reason they went out of business (like Buell and then Alta) in 2008.

I think Alta was bad luck. Their team rider had his van stolen. They did great at red bull rythem against 2 stroke 250s. I was rooting for them to succeed. Did ok at erzberg until the battery died.

Ben 500RR-S · Feb 7, 2019

HalfBrit said:
I think Alta was bad luck. Their team rider had his van stolen. They did great at red bull rythem against 2 stroke 250s. I was rooting for them to succeed. Did ok at erzberg until the battery died.

Alta's problem was simple. They could not sell enough bikes to turn a profit.

The burn rate had to have been tremendous and even though they had cut the cost of the bikes from $15,000 to $12,500, they were still not selling the bikes like they had hoped they would.

All those races and promotions cost money, never mind all the salaries and tooling, manufacturing, everything that had gone into a new company, in the end, not enough people bought the bikes and the amount of bikes that they were projected to sell in the future was so dismal that they had to close/end operations this past October.

It sure was bad luck. The guys that had the bikes loved the bikes.

I almost bought a new EXR one week before they closed but I got cold feet after realizing that I did not need two dual sport bikes at the time. I got lucky as now there is no support and no replacement parts for the important bits like the battery, electric motor or the display.

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