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$10.00 roll over valve?

S

stingray719

Well-known member
Jan 22, 2008
1,698
670
113
Colorado Springs, CO
stingraymods.com
Back in my stock car racing days we were required a roll over valve on the fuel tank. Some of us cheap b$stards used an automotive PCV valve in the vent line. Install with ball up and it breathes but tip over and fluid causes the ball to shut.

I put one of these in the breather line on top of the oil tank on the girlfriends Phazer, took less than 10 bucks and the time it took to remove the panel and cut the hose.

Why is this not done on sleds? Something I missed here?
 
J

judger101

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2008
342
133
43
37
Washburn, ND
Not yet. As the ball rests in the open position I could only envision it freezing open, but I see your point. So warm right over oil tank I don't know how it could freeze but I will watch for that.

my roll over valve will freeze up when it is really cold, so it would be something to keep an eye on
 

MTN_VIPER

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
980
442
63
NW WA St.
fourstrokesolutionsllc.com
Am I the only one who has tried this?

stingray719,

I try to avoid from posting on these threads, as I don't want to come off as dismissing your idea.
I have done extensive testing on this though and feel that I must chime in so that you don't run the risk of damaging your engine.

The crankcase breather must flow both directions. At idle the breather flow pulsates and as rpm/engine load increases the flow changes to positive air flow out the breather tube. This is why check valves are generally a bad idea as they typically will flow only in one direction.

The volume of air exiting the breather tube at wide open throttle is very high. This is why the diameter of the breather hose is so large. The air pressure in the oil tank must remain near 0 psi at all times! If pressure is allowed to build up, then the savage rate of the oil pump is effected. PCV valves do not have enough flow volume to allow the oil tank to maintain 0 psi at wide open throttle. When this happens the oil level in tank can drop (due to the poor savage rate) causing an oil supply issue when you need it the most.

Check balls, this is a bad one. Snowmobiles bounce around alot. As the sled is bouncing around, its causing the check ball to move. In this case you have a prefect storm brewing, a very high breather flow rate (due to being in the throttle) and a bouncing check ball. Once the moving check ball gets closer to the seat, the high breather flow rate will lock the ball on to its seat and the pressure in the crankcase/oil tank keeps building higher and higher until somthing lets go. Usually it blows out the cam plug seals, but I've heard stories of blown oil tanks and hoses before also.

Budget is budget and I get that. Some people don't want a roll-over kit and that's fine too. If I was low on funds or didn't want a ROV kit, I probably would do some type bottle/hose set-up. They can be kind of a hassle at times due to draining the oil out of the bottle and back into the oil tank. But at least it would have a proper flow rate.
However after what I have seen testing ROV/breather systems and how quickly the pressure can build up, I would never ever install any kind of a check ball or jiggle valve. The oiling system is critical on a four stroke and its just not worth the risk!
Again I'm not trying be an a$$, its just that I feel that I need to say something to try and prevent a really big problem down the road.

Bill
 
Last edited:
S

stingray719

Well-known member
Jan 22, 2008
1,698
670
113
Colorado Springs, CO
stingraymods.com
stingray719,

I try to avoid from posting on these threads, as I don't want to come off as dismissing your idea.
I have done extensive testing on this though and feel that I must chime in so that you don't run the risk of damaging your engine.

The crankcase breather must flow both directions. At idle the breather flow pulsates and as rpm/engine load increases the flow changes to positive air flow out the breather tube. This is why check valves are generally a bad idea as they typically will flow only in one direction.

The volume of air exiting the breather tube at wide open throttle is very high. This is why the diameter of the breather hose is so large. The air pressure in the oil tank must remain near 0 psi at all times! If pressure is allowed to build up, then the savage rate of the oil pump is effected. PCV valves do not have enough flow volume to allow the oil tank to maintain 0 psi at wide open throttle. When this happens the oil level in tank can drop (due to the poor savage rate) causing an oil supply issue when you need it the most.

Check balls, this is a bad one. Snowmobiles bounce around alot. As the sled is bouncing around, its causing the check ball to move. In this case you have a prefect storm brewing, a very high breather flow rate (due to being in the throttle) and a bouncing check ball. Once the moving check ball gets closer to the seat, the high breather flow rate will lock the ball on to its seat and the pressure in the crankcase/oil tank keeps building higher and higher until somthing lets go. Usually it blows out the cam plug seals, but I've heard stories of blown oil tanks and hoses before also.

Budget is budget and I get that. Some people don't want a roll-over kit and that's fine too. If I was low on funds or didn't want a ROV kit, I probably would do some type bottle/hose set-up. They can be kind of a hassle at times due to draining the oil out of the bottle and back into the oil tank. But at least it would have a proper flow rate.
However after what I have seen testing ROV/breather systems and how quickly the pressure can build up, I would never ever install any kind of a check ball or jiggle valve. The oiling system is critical on a four stroke and its just not worth the risk!
Again I'm not trying be an a$$, its just that I feel that I need to say something to try and prevent a really big problem down the road.

Bill




Very good points, and by the way if I was buying a kit I would buy yours. System is working so far but I will be watching it closely.




.
 
T

TRUEBLUEMAX

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2010
751
280
63
Hooper, Utah
It seems to me that a motor is a pretty expensive item to gamble with. He has put a lot of research into this and I think I would trust him on this. A couple hundred bucks versus a motor seems pretty cheap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
S

stingray719

Well-known member
Jan 22, 2008
1,698
670
113
Colorado Springs, CO
stingraymods.com
Very good points, and by the way if I was buying a kit I would buy yours. System is working so far but I will be watching it closely.




.

Tested today and works as I expected. At least until the MPI Supercharger pulley blew up. **sigh** another one just like happened to my supercharged Nytro. ANYWAYS, this worked for me but let your conscience be your guide.
 
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