Electric snowbike

eric82930 · Feb 22, 2019

I build my own snowbikes basically from scratch these days because the kits make too many compromises. I had tried some pretty crazy things that failed So humor me on this one... With all the logistical problems of power transmission and rider/mass centralization what might be possible would be an electric snow bike with a planetary reduction electric motor mounted inside the drive axle (like an e-bike. It could have plenty off cooling fins. Then use a tiny purpose built 2 stroke generator and a small bank of batteries to provide the surge current at wot.

This is how trains move millions of tons at a time under load all day.

Cons would be weight and it wouldn't sound very exciting....

Pros It will always start, no chains too adjust, never bog and it could have reverse like the last one I built:https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442338&highlight=reverse

If it is heavier the weight can literally be placed anywhere on the chassis.

The brake can just be a computer controlled reverse pulse to the motor.

Just spit balling ideas here.
I won't waste my time building one because I like to shift to much. But when I get old it might be an awesomely reliable option for when I ride alone. The ebike mfg's might be able to prototype something to test with a honda genny strapped to the tunnel.

wwillf01 · Feb 22, 2019

Honestly even simplifying it more would be taking a Zero bike and putting a kit on it..... The biggest problem right not is they have a range of 150 miles but when you read deeper into the specs they start having all types of issues being stored below and running below zero.... but man if you could get their range to a solid 100 miles the savings on maintenance and fuel would be huge along with no gyroscopic effects... even mounting a small engine for charging purpose for emergency but at least they have swappable batteries... imagine trying to locate your friends in the trees when you loose them riding their rc cars

eric82930 said:
I build my own snowbikes basically from scratch these days because the kits make too many compromises. I had tried some pretty crazy things that failed So humor me on this one... With all the logistical problems of power transmission and rider/mass centralization what might be possible would be an electric snow bike with a planetary reduction electric motor mounted inside the drive axle (like an e-bike. It could have plenty off cooling fins. Then use a tiny purpose built 2 stroke generator and a small bank of batteries to provide the surge current at wot.

This is how trains move millions of tons at a time under load all day.

Cons would be weight and it wouldn't sound very exciting....

Pros It will always start, no chains too adjust, never bog and it could have reverse like the last one I built:https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442338&highlight=reverse

If it is heavier the weight can literally be placed anywhere on the chassis.

The brake can just be a computer controlled reverse pulse to the motor.

Just spit balling ideas here.
I won't waste my time building one because I like to shift to much. But when I get old it might be an awesomely reliable option for when I ride alone. The ebike mfg's might be able to prototype something to test with a honda genny strapped to the tunnel.

Norma Stitz · Feb 22, 2019

I was headed down this path for an electric boat idea that I was building but I never completed it. The problem I ran into was getting enough charge current back into the system to make it feasible. But there should be a way to do it. Even if it was all electric it would have applications for people who ride out of their back yards. If I had back yard riding I’d be happy with a bike that only had 10 min run time.

2smokin · Feb 22, 2019

If the battery issue could be addressed it could be a serious option, in a custom build you would have a lot of wiggle room with mounting positions. Only thing is I dont know if i could personally give up burning gas LOL, even though it can be a huge PITA. You would imagine they would really need to prove themselves on the dirt before anyone spends the money to burn out the sow related details.

capulin overdrive · Feb 22, 2019

AD Boivin is still building stuff, and has built an electric Snowhawk.

n16ht5 · Feb 22, 2019

After riding an Alta, I want an electric snowbike and think it is the future. The torque of the alta is insane, 147ft lbs of torque. no shifting. If the battery would just last longer, I would be all over it. It is tempting to get one and just mount a few extra batteries on the tunnel. The riding near my house is literally a 5 minute trail ride into the goods, so it is tempting even now.

Sheetmetalfab · Feb 22, 2019

ChrisNeibauer said:
After riding an Alta, I want an electric snowbike and think it is the future. The torque of the alta is insane, 147ft lbs of torque. no shifting. If the battery would just last longer, I would be all over it. It is tempting to get one and just mount a few extra batteries on the tunnel. The riding near my house is literally a 5 minute trail ride into the goods, so it is tempting even now.

Just need a kid with a sled behind a skandic to follow along on the trail.

Honda generator running in the sled charging.

3 spare batteries charged and ready to go in the morning.

It would still limit your riding area to being near trails.

jreed · Feb 22, 2019

One large hurdle: Lithium batts don't like the cold, and can sacrifice run time/performance in cold temps. Besides not being safe to recharge under 50*F. Power potential could be amazing though.

Norma Stitz · Feb 22, 2019

jreed said:
One large hurdle: Lithium batts don't like the cold, and can sacrifice run time/performance in cold temps. Besides not being safe to recharge under 50*F. Power potential could be amazing though.

Temp is a non issue if you just insulate them and design in a heating system for them. Just using them will keep them warm enough but if not they can burn some power and heat themselves.

eric82930 · Feb 22, 2019

Well I meant electric but not battery powered. Im not sure the train engines even use batteries it all runs from a big generator.... The batteries would just be for short term storage for when the genny can't keep up with demand. Anyone know how many watts the alta makes at full torque? The Genny might have to be too big and heavy.. Battery only snow bike would be useless on a powder day. I guess if the genny could put out half the watts needed for full torque you might be OK if you don't full throttle all day.

Sheetmetalfab · Feb 22, 2019

eric82930 said:
Well I meant electric but not battery powered. Im not sure the train engines even use batteries it all runs from a big generator.... The batteries would just be for short term storage for when the genny can't keep up with demand. Anyone know how many watts the alta makes at full torque? The Genny might have to be too big and heavy.. Battery only snow bike would be useless on a powder day. I guess if the genny could put out half the watts needed for full torque you might be OK if you don't full throttle all day.

I think there’s a reason only trains use that method.

Flat as possible rails (elevation)
And low rolling resistance contribute to massive weight not being a bad thing.

jrlastofthebreed · Feb 22, 2019

Trains and really big equipment use electric motors and generators over shaft driven because of the torque, speed (no gears) and dynamic breaking. (turning the motor into a generator to create lots of drag and slow down). It works better for that purpose.

Using a gas generator to power an electric motor will not give you any more power, (in fact less) than the same gas engine powering something via chain, shaft, ect. to have a 50 hp equivalent electric bike you would need a 55 hp motor to run it. Now thats assuming only a 10% loss on the conversion. (optimistic).

Far as weight savings I don't think you would have any. You have the generation portion of the generator which are quite heavy. The transmission would be replaced my very heavy electric motor. You could put the engine on the tunnel? and move the track under the rider more? It would be a neat thing to build but heavier for the same total output of a standard bike.

I think the all electric bikes are the way to go. Another 10 years and it might be feasible. I think it would be so weird to be boon docking through the trees and not make any noise!!! haha

powdermuncher · Feb 23, 2019

How about a Hydrostatic drive like my Kubota tractor -- its even orange like a KTM

The new Kubota snow bike just set the throttle to red line and push forward or reverse:face-icon-small-hap

Sheetmetalfab · Feb 23, 2019

powdermuncher said:
How about a Hydrostatic drive like my Kubota tractor -- its even orange like a KTM

The new Kubota snow bike just set the throttle to red line and push forward or reverse:face-icon-small-hap

Honda Africa twin DCT would be close.

The transmission is pretty heavy though.

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eric82930 · Feb 23, 2019

Thinking in terms of hp instead of Watts makes more sense. Today wasn't real deep but I but my average hp output for the day was at least 20hp. You can see why a battery powered snowbike is a dumb idea if you want to ever leave the back yard. That would mean the genny would have to be something like a cr125 running full tilt all day. It wouldn't need a transmission but the windings would probably weigh just as much. In the end mass could be more centralized. But not lighter

mtnthumper · Feb 24, 2019

jrlastofthebreed said:
I think the all electric bikes are the way to go. Another 10 years and it might be feasible. I think it would be so weird to be boon docking through the trees and not make any noise!!! haha

Could wire up a speaker and blast your favorite 2T or 4T soundtrack.

How about a single shock front end? Would need to figure out the structural side to keep it from twisting, but it would be a good way to cut some weight off the front.

Oops, thought this was the home built thread. Sorry for being off topic.

Misha Subo · Feb 24, 2019

jrlastofthebreed said:
Trains and really big equipment use electric motors and generators over shaft driven because of the torque, speed (no gears) and dynamic breaking. (turning the motor into a generator to create lots of drag and slow down). It works better for that purpose.

I think the all electric bikes are the way to go. Another 10 years and it might be feasible. I think it would be so weird to be boon docking through the trees and not make any noise!!! haha

Trains?...wrong. A train uses power fed by cables from an unlimited energy source. Try that without batteries on a snow bike!

Forget all your fantasies in this thread about electric snow bikes. Even our gas powered motors have trouble carrying enough fuel for a good day's outing.

yooper01 · Feb 24, 2019

Misha Subo said:
Trains?...wrong. A train uses power fed by cables from an unlimited energy source. Try that without batteries on a snow bike!

Forget all your fantasies in this thread about electric snow bikes. Even our gas powered motors have trouble carrying enough fuel for a good day's outing.

Some commuter trains run like with cables, but most of the trains railing across North America are of the diesel electric variety.

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Misha Subo · Feb 24, 2019

yooper01 said:
Some commuter trains run like with cables, but most of the trains railing across North America are of the diesel electric variety.

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Your diesel train point noted Yooper. I think Eric originally proposed a 2T motor taking up peak demand...kind of like your diesel train example.

We need to get such a snow bike on that scale used in the earlier bike weight post.:face-icon-small-coo

powdermuncher · Feb 24, 2019

No traction for the Hydrostatic Kubota snowbike :face-icon-small-con I am disappointed. No need for brakes do it hydrostatical just 2 hoses going from the engine to the drivaxle with the drive motor right on it. the engine could be located anywhere on the bike not being limited by chain or belt drives.

I guess no love for tractors on this forum come on guys lets hear it for the kubota snowbike :cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

Electric snowbike

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