Weight balancing

Cummins88 · Oct 18, 2018

Has anyone ever thought about how balanced or unbalanced some sleds can be depending on whether a rider has a light aftermarket can and no battery versus the same sled with electric start and a stock can?

I was thinking about how manufacturers i guess have no choice but to make some sleds heavier in the front on the one side because of having e-start or not.

I've been having a harder time side-hilling on the throttle side but I think its because im not using my foot to push on the edge of the running board but instead i have it flat on the board giving me less leverage.

Thanks,
Mike

BILTIT · Oct 18, 2018

I notice it on my 11 pro rmk with a titanium can. Clutch side is noticeable heavier. I have a feeling this is part of why the stock can is a heavy pig, to balance out the sled. I would think the axys would have less weight differential from side to side as it is packed in tighter to the centre.

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Sheetmetalfab · Oct 18, 2018

Most of what you notice is because of the direction the motor, clutches and track spins.

Gyroscopic force from rotation is a real thing.

You can try running a stock can but you probably won’t notice any benefits.

I did notice a difference running the throttle side ski inset and centering the clutch side ski spacers helps the side to side transition feel the same.

More riding time also helps.

BILTIT · Oct 18, 2018

I might try that ski offset idea.

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Sheetmetalfab · Oct 18, 2018

BILTIT said:
I notice it on my 11 pro rmk with a titanium can. Clutch side is noticeable heavier. I have a feeling this is part of why the stock can is a heavy pig, to balance out the sled. I would think the axys would have less weight differential from side to side as it is packed in tighter to the centre.

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For what it’s worth the stock axys can is much heavier than the stock pro ride can.

BILTIT · Oct 18, 2018

Really? Wonder why that is.

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kidwoo · Oct 18, 2018

It's definitely a thing. I've noticed the difference in swing weight side to side on every sled I've had a lighter can on. There's definitely truth in the centripetal force of the motor and clutches being on the left side, but you also can't ignore that other than the g4 skidoos, all sleds have the motor offest to the left too. That's the heaviest part of the sled. I'm leaving my stock can in my axys for this reason (plus it's quiet).

I really really wish polaris and arctic cat would take a cue from skidoo on the more centered motor thing. I can feel it.

tuneman · Oct 18, 2018

It's typically easier for the average rider to sidehill on the left, as opposed to the right, but it has very little to do with the tiny weight imbalance of the clutches and exhaust. It has nearly everything to do with angular momentum, not centifugal forces. Spinning objects tend to want to stay put and it takes a torque to move them. The more you move it, the greater the torque required, due to conservation of angular momentum laws. Those spinning clutches need to move a lot more in order to sidehill on the right. Fortunately, thru riding experience, your body will compensate to where you eventually don't even notice the difference.

SRXSRULE · Oct 18, 2018

Its a real thing, the old Pro was about 30lbs lighter on the MAG side, put a can on it and its over 40lbs lighter.

I've always set-up my sleds with my digital racing scales. a scale pad under each ski, a pad under the FTS cross shaft and then one under the scissor. The rear ones I place a 2x4 on edge between the lugs so the weight is directly on the rails and the track doesnt effect your readings.

The axys is more balanced then the Pro was, but its still 10-15lbs lighter on the MAG side, and worse with a can installed.

sno*jet · Oct 19, 2018

here I thought it was the position of the throttle when counter steering that made right sidehills a bit trickier.

aksledjunkie · Oct 19, 2018

I think that has a lot to do with it as well ^^ Practice practice practice

JJ_0909 · Oct 19, 2018

kidwoo said:
It's definitely a thing. I've noticed the difference in swing weight side to side on every sled I've had a lighter can on. There's definitely truth in the centripetal force of the motor and clutches being on the left side, but you also can't ignore that other than the g4 skidoos, all sleds have the motor offest to the left too. That's the heaviest part of the sled. I'm leaving my stock can in my axys for this reason (plus it's quiet).

I really really wish polaris and arctic cat would take a cue from skidoo on the more centered motor thing. I can feel it.

I actually disagree with this, Polaris has done a *great* job putting the rider in the middle of the sled with respect to weight distribution.

The ski-doo is terrible, its incredibly ski-heavy and relies on weight transfer to "ride light". Doos transfer more weight to the skid, and in static form (not under power) are MUCH more ski heavy.

One way you guys can mitigate this problem to some extent is to throw scales under your skis and balance the sled this way using preload. Make sure each shock is carrying the same amount of weight.

Jaynelson · Oct 19, 2018

sno*jet said:
here I thought it was the position of the throttle when counter steering that made right sidehills a bit trickier.

That is always what bugged me the most

tuneman · Oct 19, 2018

Yes, dear, the turbo was a necessary purchase to solve a very dangerous imbalance of "your" sled. I was at serious risk of an out of control crash, even on the trail....

Sheetmetalfab · Oct 19, 2018

JJ_0909 said:
I actually disagree with this, Polaris has done a *great* job putting the rider in the middle of the sled with respect to weight distribution.

The ski-doo is terrible, its incredibly ski-heavy and relies on weight transfer to "ride light". Doos transfer more weight to the skid, and in static form (not under power) are MUCH more ski heavy.

One way you guys can mitigate this problem to some extent is to throw scales under your skis and balance the sled this way using preload. Make sure each shock is carrying the same amount of weight.

Spot on.

Set the shocks with rider weight on the sled.

FatDogX · Oct 19, 2018

aksledjunkie said:
I think that has a lot to do with it as well ^^ Practice practice practice

I would agree, these sleds are getting so good and easier and easier to ride.

I think many people want to point to the equipment or focus on excuses but it really comes down to seat time and making yourself comfortable. We all have motions, positions, or the way we do things that are "natural" and we tend to follow this. When we combine multiple body movements to complete a task, you will most likely do what comes or feels natural. It doesn't really matter what you're doing, you will tend to fall back into what is "natural".

Maneuvering a sled, motorcycle or whatever else is really no different. Most people will have that natural position that just feels good or works. The key is to practice and get those unnatural positions to point where it doesn't feel awkward or foreign anymore.

So yeah.........practice more !! LOL

FatDogX · Oct 19, 2018

This is awesome, I've actually used a similar line with the wife......You know dear, if you want me safe in the mountains, a turbo would help that !! LOL

tuneman said:
Yes, dear, the turbo was a necessary purchase to solve a very dangerous imbalance of "your" sled. I was at serious risk of an out of control crash, even on the trail....

no_uh · Oct 19, 2018

Here I was thinking it had mostly to do with my left arm (I'm rh dominant and am missing a ligament in my left shoulder) being weaker. But yea, focusing on carving/sidehilling to my weak side all season improved this dramatically.

Timbre · Oct 19, 2018

Spot on!
It is amazing how just learning to ride, instead of blaming the sled weight imbalance, changes the way one sidehills to the right. Rather than trying to balance the thing, just ride it. Your body (and brain) will adjust and you will never give it another thought.

LOVE The turbo excuse . .err i mean . . . "reason" for safety though

SRXSRULE · Oct 19, 2018

SRXSRULE said:
Its a real thing, the old Pro was about 30lbs lighter on the MAG side, put a can on it and its over 40lbs lighter.

I've always set-up my sleds with my digital racing scales. a scale pad under each ski, a pad under the FTS cross shaft and then one under the scissor. The rear ones I place a 2x4 on edge between the lugs so the weight is directly on the rails and the track doesnt effect your readings.

The axys is more balanced then the Pro was, but its still 10-15lbs lighter on the MAG side, and worse with a can installed.

Just to add to this post..... The point Im making is the sleds are not balanced from the factory, But I dont feel like it makes the sled any more difficult to side hill to one side or the other.
I do adjust the shock pre-load to try and equal this out, but you can over do it or get it perfect. I only go 2 turns softer on thee PTO ski, and 2 turns firmer on the MAG ski. if you go more then that, it creates handling problems.

I also set the rear shocks to have equal weight on them with the rider on the sled in a neutral riding position.

Weight balancing

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