Low Idle

SRXSRULE · Dec 8, 2015

It was time to adjust my TPS. The last 3 times I started my sled from a cold start it would take 2-3 pulls to start, idle for about 2 minutes and then the rpm would get low enough it would die. Coolant temp would get to about 85* when this happened. Restart sled and it would then take 2 or 3 times to go into reverse without dieing.

For starters I checked the idle setting, .930 volts which is in spec. But, as we know the base setting is the most important. Unhook throttle cable, back off idle screw and I got .723 which is out of range. Base spec is .690-.712, adjust to .700 and then set idle setting to .930 .

Sled now starts on the first pull, goes into reverse on the first try and stays idling like it should. yay!

If the dealer would have checked this they would of hooked up the Digital Wrench, seen the idle setting at .930 and said everything was fine. They wouldnt have taken the time to remove all the body work, shrouds, seat, gas tank and air box to check the base setting. Eric

Wire colors for TPS. Yellow is 5 volt source, Black is ground, Blue is the signal wire. I do the testing at the connector in the bag, right above the PTO spark plug.

Devilmanak · Dec 8, 2015

Great info there! Guy at the lot two days ago had the same issue.

Dirty Steve · Dec 8, 2015

The procedure should be a sticky. Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

sledheader · Dec 8, 2015

TimG said:
My dealer showed me the TPS idle spec in the service manual. It's 0.94 volts, same as the old Pro. This isn't the most important spec, though- that would be the baseline spec. The dealer says the only one he could find was the idle spec. Does anyone know what the baseline is supposed to be?

While we're at it, are the wire colors used in checking the TPS the same?

For reference, here's the procedure for checking the TPS on the '11 to '15 Pro (make sure a quality meter is used):

1. Feed 12V into the "ECM PWR" connector above the primary clutch. Orange is +, brown is -.

2. Check for 5 Volt signal at the ECM. You'll find this at cavity #24 on the lower ECM plug (RED/WHITE wire- back probe with a paper clip or needle with connector plugged in to ECM). You must have 4.99-5.01 V there.

3. Back off the idle screw until throttle bodies are fully closed (make sure throttle cable isn't holding the blades slightly open). Check the signal wire coming from the TPS at the ECM- cavity #7 (AQUA wire, again, back probe paper clip/ needle). It should be 0.700 volts.

4. If the voltage is out of spec, loosen screws and adjust the TPS. Re-tighten screws, recheck until it's right.

5. Once baseline spec is set correctly, set idle to 0.94 volts by adjusting the idle screw.

So is this the procedure for the axys too?

SRXSRULE · Dec 9, 2015

sledheader said:
So is this the procedure for the axys too?

Its correct, except for the ECM wire colors and terminals. Which is fine, just use the wire colors and connector I listed in my above post.

Be ready to tear the sled apart. I found I was able to unhook the air box from the carbs and raise it enough to make the idle screw adjustment without completely removing the air box. Removing the secondary clutch helps too. Plan on a couple hours the first time you do it. Eric

I also unhook the throttle cable at the flipper just to make sure its not holding the throttle open.

sledheader · Dec 9, 2015

SRXSRULE said:
Its correct, except for the ECM wire colors and terminals. Which is fine, just use the wire colors and connector I listed in my above post.

Be ready to tear the sled apart. I found I was able to unhook the air box from the carbs and raise it enough to make the idle screw adjustment without completely removing the air box. Removing the secondary clutch helps too. Plan on a couple hours the first time you do it. Eric

I also unhook the throttle cable at the flipper just to make sure its not holding the throttle open.

You had to pull the fuel tank too??

Do you have any pictures of anything?

The only multi meter I have is a $30 craftsman one..will this be accurate enough??

snobyrd · Dec 9, 2015

SRXSRULE said:
Its correct, except for the ECM wire colors and terminals. Which is fine, just use the wire colors and connector I listed in my above post.

Be ready to tear the sled apart. I found I was able to unhook the air box from the carbs and raise it enough to make the idle screw adjustment without completely removing the air box. Removing the secondary clutch helps too. Plan on a couple hours the first time you do it. Eric

I also unhook the throttle cable at the flipper just to make sure its not holding the throttle open.

So after checking your tps, was it out of calibration?

SRXSRULE · Dec 9, 2015

Yes, my base setting was out of spec. If you zoom in on this pic you can see the volt meter reads .723
Eric

xc6rider · Dec 9, 2015

And, as proven in the past... Off a little, makes a big difference!

Everyone should get comfortable checking/making these adjustments. Its rather simple, its critical, and many dealers simply dont get it right.

CO Powder · Dec 10, 2015

xc6rider said:
And, as proven in the past... Off a little, makes a big difference!

Everyone should get comfortable checking/making these adjustments. Its rather simple, its critical, and many dealers simply dont get it right.

Seriously? Everybody that just bought a new $13-14,000 sled should get comfortable disassembling half of it to make an adjustment that should be made at the factory?

How about Polaris should take the time to properly train techs to do this simple but important adjustment when the factory screws it up?

Some of can wrench but hate it. I am one of those. Today I have to pull the motor from my buddies M1000 and disassemble it so we can do the top end. Precisely why I buy new sleds, so I do not have to be a sled mechanic.

sledheader · Dec 10, 2015

CO Powder said:
Seriously? Everybody that just bought a new $13-14,000 sled should get comfortable disassembling half of it to make an adjustment that should be made at the factory?

How about Polaris should take the time to properly train techs to do this simple but important adjustment when the factory screws it up?

Some of can wrench but hate it. I am one of those. Today I have to pull the motor from my buddies M1000 and disassemble it so we can do the top end. Precisely why I buy new sleds, so I do not have to be a sled mechanic.

I agree with this. I don't mind working on stuff and actually enjoy tearing stuff down and fixing it. But when I buy a brand new sled for 13k, I don't believe I should have to tear it all the way down just to make it run like it should.

This is driving me nuts because as I mentioned, I talked to the guy at the shop who says it's normal. Now I'm told that having it set RIGHT, should yield a one pull cold start and PERFECT idle. I live in a small town and my dealership has done me favors and helped me out answering questions so I can fix stuff before and not have to bring it in to them. So I don't wanna be the guy that comes in and makes a big scene and make them tear it apart because I feel like that eventually comes back to bite you in the end. Maybe I'm just too much of the nice guy....thinking out loud here

CO Powder · Dec 10, 2015

sledheader said:
I agree with this. I don't mind working on stuff and actually enjoy tearing stuff down and fixing it. But when I buy a brand new sled for 13k, I don't believe I should have to tear it all the way down just to make it run like it should.

This is driving me nuts because as I mentioned, I talked to the guy at the shop who says it's normal. Now I'm told that having it set RIGHT, should yield a one pull cold start and PERFECT idle. I live in a small town and my dealership has done me favors and helped me out answering questions so I can fix stuff before and not have to bring it in to them. So I don't wanna be the guy that comes in and makes a big scene and make them tear it apart because I feel like that eventually comes back to bite you in the end. Maybe I'm just too much of the nice guy....thinking out loud here

Well, I tried my local small town dealer. I brought my '14 Pro to them 12 times. The first time I told them to adjust the TPS. They claimed they did and charged me an hour labor. Sled didn't run any better, and continued to deteriorate with miles. On the third dealer they got it set properly. I took a bunch of grief on the forum for trying to work with the local guys. In the end though, they failed me and said they couldn't fix it, just gave up... The third dealer in a larger town got it right the first time. The service manager took the time to really listen to me rather than blow me off. I knew it was the TPS adjustment all along. It was like pulling teeth to get somebody to do more than just a basic check. The adjustment takes some time investment and that doesn't play well with Polaris Industries pay scale for warranty work it seems.

I think if I were you I would go in and try to have a talk with them. It is an involved process to set the base setting, which is usually where they are messed up. I doubt they will turn you down. Even if you have to pay some labor, it is probably worth it. If I had to pay though, Polaris customer service would get a call and there would be reimbursement for my expenses. They do not make the process customer or dealer friendly in my experience.

If they do not get it right on the next try though, I would cut my losses and bail, find another dealer.

One pull cold start my a$$. The Doo dealer tells my buddies the same story on their sleds. Sometimes, yes, that works. Most of the time 2-3 pulls if it has been sitting all week. Mine does idle up perfectly though on a cold or hot start.

xc6rider · Dec 10, 2015

CO Powder said:
Seriously? Everybody that just bought a new $13-14,000 sled should get comfortable disassembling half of it to make an adjustment that should be made at the factory?

How about Polaris should take the time to properly train techs to do this simple but important adjustment when the factory screws it up?

Some of can wrench but hate it. I am one of those. Today I have to pull the motor from my buddies M1000 and disassemble it so we can do the top end. Precisely why I buy new sleds, so I do not have to be a sled mechanic.

Great point, and youre right, we shouldn't have to. And i guess nobody has to if its under warranty. I guess it comes down to having to line it up from the dealer, or doing it yourself.

FactoryAir1 · Dec 13, 2015

What is everyone utilizing for a 12v power source in order to check their TPS?

sledsnowco · Dec 13, 2015

Update

I took my sled in and the tps is spot on. They did adjust the idle screw and reset the tps after they adjusted the idle screw. But this is only a temporary fix in mine and Vickery Motorsports opinion. Seems the real problem is that it is way to rich at idle with fuel. Think about it, if you can put a pipe,can and head on and not adjust fueling there's a lot of fuel in there. Imo you will likely see a reflash from Polaris.

geo · Dec 13, 2015

This thread reminds me of something on the pro forum last season.

There was a split on idle issues after installing V-Force reeds (stock on Axys) in a Pro.

Some had no issue. Some cured low idle with TPS setting. Some needed more fuel (like mine which is still set richer than stock) in the idle range.

Coincidental or nature of the these reeds? Could be there is slight thickness differences in the carbon fiber sheets they are punched out from. Could be they are on the edge of "too thick" for low idle pulse.
Could be it has nothing to do with it.

SRXSRULE · Dec 13, 2015

FactoryAir1 said:
What is everyone utilizing for a 12v power source in order to check their TPS?

12 volt jump pack, car battery, anything you have thats between 12-14 volts is fine. When you power up the ECU, its sends exactly 5volt to the TPS. There is no need for any special tester, never has been

Eric

snobyrd · Dec 13, 2015

SRXSRULE said:
12 volt jump pack, car battery, anything you have thats between 12-14 volts is fine. When you power up the ECU, its sends exactly 5volt to the TPS. There is no need for any special tester, never has been Eric

Eric, would u be intrested in posting a utube vid on hooking up and testing the voltage, im not asking u to rip apart your sled but it sounds like all the testing can be done from the clutch side area?

kboos · Dec 29, 2015

low idle

my sled is past the break in and still won't idle warm or cold. It is sitting at the dealer, hopefully they can figure it out, if they do I will let you know.

goforbroke · Dec 29, 2015

kboos said:
my sled is past the break in and still won't idle warm or cold. It is sitting at the dealer, hopefully they can figure it out, if they do I will let you know.

exactly how mine was. dealer wasn't too sure so I followed the tps adjustment thread by srx and did it myself. baseline setting was way off. Now it idles and runs awesome!!!!! good luck and it did take 3 hours.

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