2002 summit 800X very hard to start

snow1981 · Jan 13, 2015

I have a 2002 Summit-X 800, i have recently cleaned the carbs drained all the old gas, added new gas, took out the 17.5 pilots that were in there, and replaced with 20, and i have to PULL AND PULL AND PULL, and if I'm lucky it will start. I have tried everything i know of.

Last night it was cold, i pulled it 24 times and it started, full choke no throttle.

This morning, it was cold again, i pulled it 10 times full choke, and nothing, then with full choke i went WOT and it started after the 2nd pull.

Tonight after work it was cold i Pulled it with full choke, half choke, WOT, half throttle, no throttle, i pulled 34 times and gave up, i grabbed the ether down the spark plug holes, 1 pull later fired right up.

I am at a loss of what to try next, i have the screw on the side of the carbs (air screw possibly??) backed off to 1.5 turns, which is recommended.

Yes it has ALWAYS been a bear to start im up for suggestions.

summit800 · Jan 14, 2015

I would pull the carbs again , including the choke assemble and blow out with high preasure air also do you have adjustable needles in it?

BBP · Jan 14, 2015

snow1981 said:
I have a 2002 Summit-X 800, i have recently cleaned the carbs drained all the old gas, added new gas, took out the 17.5 pilots that were in there, and replaced with 20, and i have to PULL AND PULL AND PULL, and if I'm lucky it will start. I have tried everything i know of.

Last night it was cold, i pulled it 24 times and it started, full choke no throttle.

This morning, it was cold again, i pulled it 10 times full choke, and nothing, then with full choke i went WOT and it started after the 2nd pull.

Tonight after work it was cold i Pulled it with full choke, half choke, WOT, half throttle, no throttle, i pulled 34 times and gave up, i grabbed the ether down the spark plug holes, 1 pull later fired right up.

I am at a loss of what to try next, i have the screw on the side of the carbs (air screw possibly??) backed off to 1.5 turns, which is recommended.

Yes it has ALWAYS been a bear to start im up for suggestions.

I'm curious why you put in 20 pilots. I've read on here for years of guys suggesting 20 pilots, but I never understood why. They never worked for me, too rich. the 17.5 were right on in most cases & I've lowered them many times with mods. The screws you're referring to are fuel screws, counter clockwise = more fuel. If my memory is correct, 1 turn out was stock. I ride in the mountains, so if you ride at low elev, things may be different. You might check your reeds, if they're chipped or broken, it will be difficult to start.

snow1981 · Jan 14, 2015

When i pulled the carbs the first time, i did not pull the choke plunger out of the carb itself, i did spray a little carb cleaner down the plunger hole, but did not pull it out. I don't know if my needles are adjustable or not. how would i tell and how do they adjust??

The 20's, i guess i was going off what you were told, there were alot of people switching over to the 20'S and i talked to a couple buddies of mine and they both said switch to the 20, so that's what i did. the fuel screws are recommended at 1.5 out so i did that as well.

summit800 · Jan 15, 2015

why the 20? because the 2000-2003 liked to run lean in the mid range if held at a 1/4 to 1/2 throttle for extended time, if you did the piston mod on them it would fix it, at tdc the piston did not cover all the ports, wiseco had a piston for them that covered the port, usually you could drop 2 main jet sizes after mod and leave at 17.5, or you could tig weld the piston skirt , I did alot of them

winter brew · Jan 15, 2015

Reed boots delaminating? That is a common problem. I would also do a compression test.

snow1981 · Jan 15, 2015

The compression is 152 in each, verified with a MAC tester. I did not see any cracks in the boots. I will be taking it apart AGAIN tomorrow, i want to replace all my fuel lines, and take apart my fuel pump, anything else i should do when im down there??

summit800 · Jan 16, 2015

do you have the adjustable needles in yours?

eddy · Jan 16, 2015

Start?

Replace fuel pump and pulse hose based on wanting to start after 20 to 30 pulls. Starting first pull on ether also leads me this way.
Is all old gas out? Siphon out everything and start will all fresh. Some fuel system cleaner in the fuel will not hurt either.

snow1981 · Jan 16, 2015

EDDY.... I now have the fuel pump apart, i bought brand new fuel line and will put that in tomorrow, i will also replace the pulse line if you reccomend it. All the old gas is NOT out, i did however only have a couple gallons in there and i mixed it with sea foam. please advise on other tricks as i will be putting it back together tomorrow to see if i have a winner.

BBP · Jan 17, 2015

You mentioned it's always been a bear to start, how long have you owned it? Stock or modified? How many miles on engine? When it does start, how does it run? Do both cyl's get hot? When you pulled the plugs, what did they look like? Dry, wet, oily, tan, black & gooey? When it won't start have you checked to see if it has spark? Have you tried a new set of plugs? Is your choke cable adjusted too tight causing it to flood? A bad stator is common & can be hard to start. Air leaks? If you pull your recoil off & see a bunch of grease inside the mag housing, it's a sure sign of a bad mag seal & is also common. Any gas & oil dripping out of the y-pipe? How does the inside of the y-pipe look? Wet ,black & oily or somewhat dry with a tan color? Oil pump cable broken or stuck open?

BBP · Jan 17, 2015

Bad spark plug boots are also very common.

snow1981 · Jan 17, 2015

BBP, i have owned the sled for 6 years. it is 100% stock. 4493 miles on engine, there was a top end done at 1800, i have owned it since 2200. yes both CYL's get hot, both plugs have spark, the plugs when i pull it out are black and look wet, i don't know if its gas or oil. I guess i have not put in new plugs but i do have a a box of them i can try that as well. the choke cable has never been adjusted i looked into it and i don't see how it can be adjusted its a plunger style and has a top ring that connects to the cable it looks like its only the one way. I pulled the recoil off to replace the recoil cup, i did not see any grease. The inside of the Y is a little black and oily. It kind of just looks like the oil sits in the bottom of the Y. I followed the oil pump cable, it is opening and closing as it should. Now the air leak..... I guess i don't know for sure, i looked at my boots, they look OK, but i did notice the top of the boots when i pulled them towards the seat of the sled, look like they might be splitting or separating from the CYL. i don't see into the CYL. but they separation is there, ONLY WHEN I APPLY LIBERAL AMOUNTS OF PRESSURE TOWARDS THE SEAT. I Have seen alot worse than that.

BBP · Jan 18, 2015

snow1981 said:
BBP, i have owned the sled for 6 years. it is 100% stock. 4493 miles on engine, there was a top end done at 1800, i have owned it since 2200. yes both CYL's get hot, both plugs have spark, the plugs when i pull it out are black and look wet, i don't know if its gas or oil. I guess i have not put in new plugs but i do have a a box of them i can try that as well. the choke cable has never been adjusted i looked into it and i don't see how it can be adjusted its a plunger style and has a top ring that connects to the cable it looks like its only the one way. I pulled the recoil off to replace the recoil cup, i did not see any grease. The inside of the Y is a little black and oily. It kind of just looks like the oil sits in the bottom of the Y. I followed the oil pump cable, it is opening and closing as it should. Now the air leak..... I guess i don't know for sure, i looked at my boots, they look OK, but i did notice the top of the boots when i pulled them towards the seat of the sled, look like they might be splitting or separating from the CYL. i don't see into the CYL. but they separation is there, ONLY WHEN I APPLY LIBERAL AMOUNTS OF PRESSURE TOWARDS THE SEAT. I Have seen alot worse than that.

Depending on how you ride, 2600 miles could be nearing the life of those pistons. I would at least look up through the Y-pipe & see if there's any scoring on the pistons. The choke should have a little slack in it & should be adjustable. Definitely try some new plugs, preferably solid tips & blow the carbon out of the spark plug boots with compressed air. Put a little dielectric grease on the spark plug caps, it will help with the soot build up in the boots. If your reed boots are delaminating, you need to change them. If they're not leaking now, they will be very soon. V-force reeds are a good replacement & come with new boots.

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2002 summit 800X very hard to start

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