Boring a 2005 EFI 900 King Cat (Stock M1000 Cylinders?)
- Thread starter 507Sledz
- Start date
You can take the stock 900 valves, and have them ground out to match the larger bore. You can also just shim them away from the piston a little bit, but I don't like that solution, since it reduces the effectiveness.
We have our cylinders bored at a local machine shop, then plated at millenium. My dad does our porting, but I know that RKT has done some, and I believe Turbotater here on the forum has as well.
We have our cylinders bored at a local machine shop, then plated at millenium. My dad does our porting, but I know that RKT has done some, and I believe Turbotater here on the forum has as well.
Wow, a whole bunch happened here while I was sleeping!
So once I bore my jugs to fit m1000 pistons, what else do I have to do to my motor to make sure everything runs perfect! such as power valves, heads?
Like Mike, Kiliki, Idcatman3 and I have said everything has to be matched to the new bore size.
1. and can I run High comp heads on the m1000 bore?
Yes, you have to use higher octane fuel and make sure you have enough clearance between the piston and the head to prevent detonation.
2.Also will this effect the durability of the motor? sense I will have smaller cylinder walls?
The 900 cylinders have plenty of metal in the walls to allow for a bore job. The biggest problem is the inner head o ring as I talked about in my first chime on this thread. That is where the size limitation comes, in my opinion.
3.will my computer be able to handle this bore?
nope
4.do you know off the top of your head the HP gain on 75 more cc?
will i be able to notice a difference when I go to ride it again with a 975cc?
Horsepower gains will depend a lot on the port work done after boring. If you just bore the cylinders and don't do any port work you probably won't notice any difference at all. A couple years ago I rode with an 800 cat that had a 1010 kit in it. It ran just about like a good 600. I think he started with 800 cylinders and didn't do any port work. When you bore the cylinders the ports become smaller relative to the bore size than they were originally. I cut them to bring them back to the same relative sizes as before. Some engine builders will cut them even more to go for maximum power. I am willing to settle for a little less max power in exchange for reliability and ease of tuning.
I hope this helps. This is about as much fun as I have had here for a while.
So once I bore my jugs to fit m1000 pistons, what else do I have to do to my motor to make sure everything runs perfect! such as power valves, heads?
Like Mike, Kiliki, Idcatman3 and I have said everything has to be matched to the new bore size.
1. and can I run High comp heads on the m1000 bore?
Yes, you have to use higher octane fuel and make sure you have enough clearance between the piston and the head to prevent detonation.
2.Also will this effect the durability of the motor? sense I will have smaller cylinder walls?
The 900 cylinders have plenty of metal in the walls to allow for a bore job. The biggest problem is the inner head o ring as I talked about in my first chime on this thread. That is where the size limitation comes, in my opinion.
3.will my computer be able to handle this bore?
nope
4.do you know off the top of your head the HP gain on 75 more cc?
will i be able to notice a difference when I go to ride it again with a 975cc?
Horsepower gains will depend a lot on the port work done after boring. If you just bore the cylinders and don't do any port work you probably won't notice any difference at all. A couple years ago I rode with an 800 cat that had a 1010 kit in it. It ran just about like a good 600. I think he started with 800 cylinders and didn't do any port work. When you bore the cylinders the ports become smaller relative to the bore size than they were originally. I cut them to bring them back to the same relative sizes as before. Some engine builders will cut them even more to go for maximum power. I am willing to settle for a little less max power in exchange for reliability and ease of tuning.
I hope this helps. This is about as much fun as I have had here for a while.
5
RE:
Ok all this info helps. However I still don't know what kit or bore I want to do. The 975 sounds nice but it also sounds like a lot of work. where can I send my jugs and power valves out to be done correctly?
I called cutler today and the fella told me that they only make the 1150cc kit for the king cat now and you would have to do some work to the crank, and then to put the cherry on top he told me the price... which was $3599.00 and I picked me sled up for less. So cutler is out of the question for sure. unless I can find a used kit. I wouldn't want any higher then a 1010cc bore.
I also visited speedwerx and checked there stuff out. But I keep hearing how much better cutler is because the size of there water jackets.
So far I have narrowed it down to:
Cutler: 1000cc
Cutler: 1010cc
Speedwerx:??
The 975 setup
Or just keep it stock and soup it up around the stock motor.
The very max I would spend is $1500 if I do a bore. Not a cent more, or I'll just keep it stock. As of the price for power valve, pistons, and jug's (properly setup if I go the 975 way)
Keep the Info coming fella's!!!
Ok all this info helps. However I still don't know what kit or bore I want to do. The 975 sounds nice but it also sounds like a lot of work. where can I send my jugs and power valves out to be done correctly?
I called cutler today and the fella told me that they only make the 1150cc kit for the king cat now and you would have to do some work to the crank, and then to put the cherry on top he told me the price... which was $3599.00 and I picked me sled up for less. So cutler is out of the question for sure. unless I can find a used kit. I wouldn't want any higher then a 1010cc bore.
I also visited speedwerx and checked there stuff out. But I keep hearing how much better cutler is because the size of there water jackets.
So far I have narrowed it down to:
Cutler: 1000cc
Cutler: 1010cc
Speedwerx:??
The 975 setup
Or just keep it stock and soup it up around the stock motor.
The very max I would spend is $1500 if I do a bore. Not a cent more, or I'll just keep it stock. As of the price for power valve, pistons, and jug's (properly setup if I go the 975 way)
Keep the Info coming fella's!!!
You still need to do the port/head/valve work with any of the other big bores, not just the 975. The only thing different with the 975 is the spacer under the cylinder, and availability of pistons.
Idcatman3 is right, the head, exhaust valve and port work will need to be done on any of them. Cutler's 1150 is so pricey because it comes complete ready to bolt on. Custom made cylinders are expensive.
Bore stock cylinders is about $60 each
Port work $150 to $400 each depending on who does it and how much they cut,
Replate the cylinders about $225 each.
Pistons about $120 each, SPI pistons for about $140 per set
Cylinder spacer about $20 each
Additional base gasket about $20 each
Head work and grinding the valves $100 to $200
More if you need any other parts, from the picture of your head, I would think it could be used again, I have run lots worse.
I get a total of about $1440 using middle values of the numbers that can vary much. I have some cylinders that are bored and ready to port but they have been on the shelf for a year now and I can't seem to find the time to get them finished. Idcatman3 keeps coming up with projects for me to do and keeps having kids so he can't come help. I would offer to help but can't even get my own stuff done and am going to have to knock off for the summer soon.
Bore stock cylinders is about $60 each
Port work $150 to $400 each depending on who does it and how much they cut,
Replate the cylinders about $225 each.
Pistons about $120 each, SPI pistons for about $140 per set
Cylinder spacer about $20 each
Additional base gasket about $20 each
Head work and grinding the valves $100 to $200
More if you need any other parts, from the picture of your head, I would think it could be used again, I have run lots worse.
I get a total of about $1440 using middle values of the numbers that can vary much. I have some cylinders that are bored and ready to port but they have been on the shelf for a year now and I can't seem to find the time to get them finished. Idcatman3 keeps coming up with projects for me to do and keeps having kids so he can't come help. I would offer to help but can't even get my own stuff done and am going to have to knock off for the summer soon.
Just found something interesting, stock 900 pistons are about $12 more each than stock 1000 ones.
I'd take it on myself if I was you. Enjoy building a bigbore piece by piece! That's half the fun in building up sleds. If you have experience building motors, doing this is a piece of cake. All the ingredients are mentioned above. Get er done and let's see that sled of yours!
M
Im with reeb, you got all summer to do this. One month spend the money to bore cylinders, the next month get them plated. Its not too bad to match the valves if you have a die grinder and take your time. I wouldnt think a machine shop would charge much to do the heads, cause it takes all of 30 minutes to do them on a lathe. Plus, at the end of the project when you have a good running engine, it feels pretty darn good to be able to say YOU built it, right?
5
RE:
Reeb, Mike,
I don't have that much experience building motors. I have a fair amount of knowledge taking stock motors apart and putting them back together. My father in law and his brother have done a decent amount of porting and grinding stuff down in the internal part of the motor. But its only on vintage sleds, being they drag race vintage sleds. which i'm sure is a little different from my sled.
So there is no where I can send my cylinders to, to get them bored, and ported properly?
Thanks
Reeb, Mike,
I don't have that much experience building motors. I have a fair amount of knowledge taking stock motors apart and putting them back together. My father in law and his brother have done a decent amount of porting and grinding stuff down in the internal part of the motor. But its only on vintage sleds, being they drag race vintage sleds. which i'm sure is a little different from my sled.
So there is no where I can send my cylinders to, to get them bored, and ported properly?
Thanks
Millenium (https://www.mt-llc.com/cylservice.php) can do most of it. I don't see boring offered, but I would imagine they can.
Then I know that RKT (http://www.2strokeheads.com/) has done port work on these. I would also trust Turbotater (http://www.snowest.com/forum/member.php?u=45093) with porting.
Then I know that RKT (http://www.2strokeheads.com/) has done port work on these. I would also trust Turbotater (http://www.snowest.com/forum/member.php?u=45093) with porting.
Yes all years of the M1000 used the same part number for pistons according the parts look up I use- Brown's Leisure World. http://www.brownsleisureworld.com
I could get you the specs I use to do the port work, since it sounds like you know someone who could do it. I recommend doing the cutting before the plating so you don't have to cut the hard nicasil and so the nicasil will blend into the ports instead of having the sharp edge to potentially start flaking off.
I could get the boring done at the shop that does mine but the shipping both ways would add another $80 or so.
You might try talking to auburn6887 here on the forums about boring and plating. I was talking with him in January about a 975 and it sounded like he was getting a connection with Millenium to get some done.
I could get you the specs I use to do the port work, since it sounds like you know someone who could do it. I recommend doing the cutting before the plating so you don't have to cut the hard nicasil and so the nicasil will blend into the ports instead of having the sharp edge to potentially start flaking off.
I could get the boring done at the shop that does mine but the shipping both ways would add another $80 or so.
You might try talking to auburn6887 here on the forums about boring and plating. I was talking with him in January about a 975 and it sounded like he was getting a connection with Millenium to get some done.
It shouldn't matter whether they are porting old or less old stuff. I would assume whatever they have been doing they would have specs or some kind of measurements to go from. It may take me a day or two to find where I wrote down my stuff. Send me an email address and I will try to send some pictures too. A picture is worth 1000 words they say.
C
BINGO! The new 3" claw added, geared right, good shocks, transfer and your sled will do all you ever needed, or could hope to hang on to. Keep up with any other norm aspirated oem late models for high marks etc, AND no gym membership needed.
Just never trusted the stock Fuel Inj to run good beyond pipe adds.
Just go through the drive train for reliability and ride the heck out of it.
What ever you go with, hope it works.
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