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After 2 years on the 850, suspension wins, losses, and other thoughts. A discussion.

Ace Freely

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Wanting to get others thoughts on what they have done suspension wise on their 850.

I have an 18 165x. 250ish fully ready to ride. I had Big John re valve my 4 shocks to my weight (400). Bomber rails, and the ZRP skid re location braket (150) that eliminates the T Motion.

I thought the sled handled great, for the cash I spent. Seemed to side hill like a knife, and initiating said side hill was as simple of taking weight off of my down hill foot, and away we go!

I would like to know ...if anyone did the coil over suspension? Any other suspension thoughts?

I feel for the 550 in suspension mods that I spent that I am happy. Big John's recommendations were spot on for suspension on a budget.

Ace
 

Dynamo^Joe

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Is there a list of vendors out there that revalve stock X shocks?
You mentioned one; I know monsterperformance is another one.
are there other shops revalve stock summit shocks?

does Toms snowmobile do too?

Ive gone to the next stronger front coils and center shock spring. Limiter strap let right out. SkinZ post forward mod set at #2 hole forward. Seems to allow me to sidehill across more setup snow without washing the track out and if i have to/want to turn up, I have less effort holding the sled on its side, like it dont dip as much, fighting me.

My goal has been for one ski to carry more weight without completely stroking the shock. I been using tyraps wrapped around the shock shaft to measure how the spring tension is working for me in our type of snow (wet/heavy/cascades/mashed taters)
 
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T
Aug 8, 2011
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Coupling skid in the rear is a huge improvement. It climbs further, controls ski lift, side hills without washing on steeper hills and gets up on the snow quicker. It does slow the handling of the machine a bit but makes it more predictable.
 

donbrown

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Coupling skid in the rear is a huge improvement. It climbs further, controls ski lift, side hills without washing on steeper hills and gets up on the snow quicker. It does slow the handling of the machine a bit but makes it more predictable.

Ut oh Don't know COUPLING SKID … What is Coupling skid?
 
T
Aug 8, 2011
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Ut oh Don't know COUPLING SKID … What is Coupling skid?

Well I built mine and that’s what I call it.

But a kmod, old timbersled, racers edge are all examples of a coupling type rear suspension and have a very similar affect once setup. A coupling suspension keeps the skid generating more even pressure and keeps the sled flatter.
 
T
Dec 22, 2008
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Wenatchee,WA
Coupling skid in the rear is a huge improvement. It climbs further, controls ski lift, side hills without washing on steeper hills and gets up on the snow quicker. It does slow the handling of the machine a bit but makes it more predictable.

You can tune a kmod so it does not slow the handing down. I have a 165 3” with a raptors and a kmod.The best thing about a kmod is that it is extremely tuneable.You can go from skis planted climbing to a super light playfull feeling front end in under a minute by changing the coupler setting or the shock preloads and clickers. In my opinion the kmod is the best money you can spend on a sled. I’m local to you if you would like to check it out sometime this winter.
 
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pepperhouse

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Any more info or a Kmod review?
On the fence for a K mod for my turbo 165 Gen 4

Have zrp relocate, t motion brass washers and Enzo shocks
Find it helps hold front down climbing but feels so planted everywhere else.

I like the kmod feature of being able to switch from playful to planted with coupler blocks. And smooth trail ride be a nice bonus
 
T
Aug 8, 2011
711
458
63
You can tune a kmod so it does not slow the handing down. I have a 165 3” with a raptors and a kmod.The best thing about a kmod is that it is extremely tuneable.You can go from skis planted climbing to a super light playfull feeling front end in under a minute by changing the coupler setting or the shock preloads and clickers. In my opinion the kmod is the best money you can spend on a sled. I’m local to you if you would like to check it out sometime this winter.

I have a pretty good feel for what a kmod, timber or any adjustable coupling rear skid does...i have ridden a raptor on a doo. I have run 4 substantial variants of geometry in my own skid. Works real well, but because they work better is also why they take a little fun off the sled at stock power levels. To gain control of weight transfer and the wheelie issue, the basic geometry of the coupling skid causes the front and rear arm of the skid to not operate as independently of each other as a stock geometry skid. The very concept of the design prevents the sled from having the feeling of rolling back onto the rear skid. It takes on a feeling of lifting more evenly up and out of the snow. Not that you can’t set them up to carry the skis...I do. But it’s different, the sled feels like it lunges forward and lifts flatter with the coupling skid, whereas the stock skid feels like it pivots the skis up and rear of track down. This gives the sled a less serious, more fun feel. It also causes the stock skid sled to get the boots put to it by the coupling skid sled.

We are running turbos again, and at those applied outputs a stock skid limits the sled far too much to be an acceptable solution for me
 
T
Dec 22, 2008
136
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Wenatchee,WA
I have a pretty good feel for what a kmod, timber or any adjustable coupling rear skid does...i have ridden a raptor on a doo. I have run 4 substantial variants of geometry in my own skid. Works real well, but because they work better is also why they take a little fun off the sled at stock power levels. To gain control of weight transfer and the wheelie issue, the basic geometry of the coupling skid causes the front and rear arm of the skid to not operate as independently of each other as a stock geometry skid. The very concept of the design prevents the sled from having the feeling of rolling back onto the rear skid. It takes on a feeling of lifting more evenly up and out of the snow. Not that you can’t set them up to carry the skis...I do. But it’s different, the sled feels like it lunges forward and lifts flatter with the coupling skid, whereas the stock skid feels like it pivots the skis up and rear of track down. This gives the sled a less serious, more fun feel. It also causes the stock skid sled to get the boots put to it by the coupling skid sled.

We are running turbos again, and at those applied outputs a stock skid limits the sled far too much to be an acceptable solution for me
this is all 100% true you can’t flip the sled over backwards with a kmod but it can still be playful. I like the option to set it up playful for non pow days and take 2min to change the shock settings for max float on the deep pow days.I also like how you can kinda chop the gas with the kmod and it will kinda pop back up on the snow. It’s kinda hard to describe all they can do without riding one. Seeing is believing.
Any more info or a Kmod review?
On the fence for a K mod for my turbo 165 Gen 4

Have zrp relocate, t motion brass washers and Enzo shocks
Find it helps hold front down climbing but feels so planted everywhere else.

I like the kmod feature of being able to switch from playful to planted with coupler blocks. And smooth trail ride be a nice bonus

One of the deciding factors for me was the kmod is a complete skid and came with rails,shocks, arms, everything. If you were planning on getting shocks and rails etc anyway a kmod is not really that much more. But I after I got it I found out I love how adjustable they are and I like how the coupled skid handles.
 
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Motodrew

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I opted for these dual rate progressive springs offered by Revolution Powersports to remedy the soft OEM setup. See my post here:
https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439956

hxwkeIs.jpg
 
For my 17 850, I survived the first year of the belt blowing festival by installing a blow hole, and even then I had to pay close attention to belt temps but it was very successful. Now I have done the 18 update and have installed DJ's clutch kit and no more worries in that regard and it pulls mucho harder too :face-icon-small-hap.
Unlike DJ though, I have cinched up my limiter strap to help keep the front end down, but definitely would rather of solved this riddle like a better way like others have done, since i still trench more than I would like.
So for those of us on a budget what is the simplest/cheapest way to get the rear skid to be more predictive without losing the TMO or is a lock out the only way besides coupling the rear skid??I have been trying to work with the new tech rather than against it...but I do notice on steep descents its much harder to turn than when climbing!
 
J

JJ_0909

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The 850 comes from the factory with a semi-tolerable suspension package. Its tuned to work with the weight distribution and weight transfer of the sled.

The quality of the dampers (SP) leave a lot to be desired as they fall apart pretty quickly and are not rebuildable from what I know.

The 850 is a very front heavy sled. This by design, some love it, some hate it. Either way, the platform relies heavily on weight transfer to make the sled feel light to the rider. Suspension and clutching have to work together for this to work properly.

Besides the durability of the dampers, the biggest problem in stock form is how soft the torsion bars are out back. The skid is incredibly easy to bottom, and increasing preload does not change the actual spring rate, so you are just as likely to bottom the suspension all things considered.

If you go to an aftermarket package, there is a delicate balance between allowing the sled to transfer some weight to the rear while keeping the sled "even". If you don't allow the sled to transfer enough weight, you'll know it. You will be beat to hell in a short amount of time as you wrangle the beast.

If the sled is over transferring, well, this too sucks as your skis will be 5 feet off the ground all day. Cool for photos. Not cool for going anywhere challenging.

The good aftermarket tuners can facilitate a package that is adjustable, keeps the sled playful, but also keeps the sled from trenching. Most of the best packages are tunable, just for this reason. Sometimes you want to be a wheelie machine. Sometimes you have to get to the top.

Front suspension is tolerable until its not ;). There are a ton of options out there, and so long as they are tuned properly, you'll be happy.

If I was on a budget, I'd get some X shocks valved right (to the right springs), go to the heavier torsion bars out back and call er a day. It won't be as good as a custom setup with aftermarket dampers, but it'll still be an improvement.

If you are turbo'd this becomes an even bigger deal... as weight transfer is even trickier to control being you've basically taken away your bottom end (0-5000 RPM doesn't do a whole lot compared to a stocker).
 

Devilmanak

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Dec 12, 2007
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Interesting.
I had a 2018 Summit 175 and a 2018 Freeride 154.
I bought the same sleds this year.
Personally, I think I am going to buy Freeride shocks for the front three on the Summit and put a locked out aftermarket on the rear.
Best bang for the buck is revalving the stock X shocks. A shock is a shock, unless you are putting super fancy stuff on it like remote resis or multiple adjustments. The reason I have never bought aftermarket valving for my stockers is because of pride. I have rebuilt and revalved a lot of shocks, some for big races. (Iron Dog.) But I had the sheets to tell me where to go. So I am kinda hesitant to pay. I can rebuilt the shocks, I don't have the valving. I think I am actually going to have Big John take care of my 175 thing year!
 
M

Meyersnow

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Feb 8, 2015
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Qs3

I have the '18, sp, 165 with Fox Float Coil overs all around. I believe they are the 1.5's.

I would give them a 6/10. I like them, and only have 150 miles on em, but need to dial em in. I like being able to adjust the settings with the flick of a dial, but it didn't have the "wow" factor. For some reason, I wasn't able to find a love/love relationship with em.


When I revalved my old KYB shocks on my XM, I actually had the wow factor.
 
C

caper11

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Nov 2, 2008
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Northern alberta
Is there a list of vendors out there that revalve stock X shocks?
You mentioned one; I know monsterperformance is another one.
are there other shops revalve stock summit shocks?

does Toms snowmobile do too?

Ive gone to the next stronger front coils and center shock spring. Limiter strap let right out. SkinZ post forward mod set at #2 hole forward. Seems to allow me to sidehill across more setup snow without washing the track out and if i have to/want to turn up, I have less effort holding the sled on its side, like it dont dip as much, fighting me.

My goal has been for one ski to carry more weight without completely stroking the shock. I been using tyraps wrapped around the shock shaft to measure how the spring tension is working for me in our type of snow (wet/heavy/cascades/mashed taters)

Im almost finished building my 19, I run enzo tuned x shocks. So I did it again on my 19. Enzo is the only revalve shop that ive seen that has the ability to control the power of a turbo with the stock skid.
 

Monty

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I have the '18, sp, 165 with Fox Float Coil overs all around. I believe they are the 1.5's.

I would give them a 6/10. I like them, and only have 150 miles on em, but need to dial em in. I like being able to adjust the settings with the flick of a dial, but it didn't have the "wow" factor. For some reason, I wasn't able to find a love/love relationship with em.


When I revalved my old KYB shocks on my XM, I actually had the wow factor.

Who did you get to revalve your XM shocks?
 
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