Titanium full rear suspension for the Pro

mountainhorse · Feb 8, 2012

To go to the effort to make a light skid and put heavy "piggyback" or remote resi shocks on there seems counter productive to me.

Your $3000 number was with shocks I would imagine. What price without? (ballpark)

Front arm, rear upper and lower, transfer rods, cross shafts, etc???

Keep up the good work!!

wellfed777 · Feb 8, 2012

x2 what he said :face-icon-small-ton

WAIT! did read that right two pounds per arm set. wow

ak · Feb 8, 2012

It's $550 for his ski doo swing arm and the back arm will cost more I'm shure than the front arm. So it won't be cheap. Dan does some of the nicest welding and quality work around.

alt · Feb 8, 2012

HighmarkerX said:
Hey Alt,

If you just copied the stock Pro skid and made the front arm, rear arm and scissor out of Ti, I don't see this costing much more than the 4 a-arms you sell for $800. Then anyone can run any rails they want, any shock setup they want, etc.

I had the material quoted and had an experienced Ti welder quote it and it would cost around that. So, I assume with your experience there should be a way to make a cost effective lightweight Ti skid.

Just depends on how involved it ends up. If that were the case it would follow suit of what i have going on now with the XP. Front swing arms are $675.00, and the rears are $750.00 (never been advertised). For the guys that wouldnt want the full package, i dont see a problem going that direction.

mountainhorse said:
To go to the effort to make a light skid and put heavy "piggyback" or remote resi shocks on there seems counter productive to me.

Your $3000 number was with shocks I would imagine. What price without? (ballpark)

Front arm, rear upper and lower, transfer rods, cross shafts, etc???

Keep up the good work!!

The resi shocks are definately not manditory, and are available in the Raptors. I just dont advertise them. They are $100.00 less. Me being the anal weight freek that i am, still prefer the piggy backs especially for the rear for what little bit of weight they add, the adjustability is really super nice. Again....just personal pref. That number was with shocks, one with Ti springs, and the other without. Without shocks, steel springs, with resi, $1050.00 less. Without shocks, Ti springs, with resi, $1500.00 less. Starting to get confusing now, bear with me. Thanks!
Dan

HighmarkerX · Feb 8, 2012

alt said:
Just depends on how involved it ends up. If that were the case it would follow suit of what i have going on now with the XP. Front swing arms are $675.00, and the rears are $750.00 (never been advertised). For the guys that wouldnt want the full package, i dont see a problem going that direction.

Thanks those numbers sound about right. I was first thinking $3k sounded way high but that was with $1500 worth of shocks. Anyhow, I think stock replacement parts in Ti would be a good seller so please invest in the tooling and starting making some this summer.:face-icon-small-hap

Also I think Mountainhorse is on to something about the inner cross shafts. If you made some out of tube ti with welded on nuts/ threaded inserts you could reduce some weight over the solid aluminum bar that Polaris uses currently.

alt · Feb 8, 2012

HighmarkerX said:
Thanks those numbers sound about right. I was first thinking $3k sounded way high but that was with $1500 worth of shocks. Anyhow, I think stock replacement parts in Ti would be a good seller so please invest in the tooling and starting making some this summer.:face-icon-small-hap

Also I think Mountainhorse is on to something about the inner cross shafts. If you made some out of tube ti with welded on nuts/ threaded inserts you could reduce some weight over the solid aluminum bar that Polaris uses currently.

I agree that will likely be the best seller, but its nice to work both ends for the guys that want to pull out all the stops. This project will be no different than anything in the past. As for the cross shafts

, the only one worth doing in Ti is the front shock shaft. The rest you would not gain anything for weight loss, and just add more unnessary expense.

B C · Feb 8, 2012

The Raptors are worth every penny, and ounce. I'd definately be interested in this setup.

alt · Feb 8, 2012

B C said:
The Raptors are worth every penny, and ounce. I'd definately be interested in this setup.

BC, sounds like you know first hand how the Raptors transform a sled. Long story shorter, i ran into Jake from Raptor last year. Put a pair on my sled for shts and giggles. Now keep in mind, i have always been a Float fan, but have also been through the "shock" popularity era. I was so impressed, i couldn't not put these as part of what i believe to be the best front end kit out there. Then came the designing of the rear suspension (thanks Jake). And once again, the Raptors. The only thing i could possibly compare them to would be the Elkos, and even their steel spring shock's per pair are $100.00 more than a set of Raptors with Ti springs.....and 1.5lbs per shock heavier. I could go on and on about my disappointments with air shocks. The inconsistant adjustments, the pump thing, etc. But hey, the last thing i want to do is turn this into a shock battle with a bunch of oppinions. Just my 02. I started a thread on Dootalk awhile back, and i could see where it was going, so i just quit pushing them. I dont have to, i guess....they simply sell themselves. Sorry for the rambling guys, just had to throw that out there. Thanks for all the feed back! Keep it comming.
Dan

800poodragon · Feb 11, 2012

Rode Dans XP yesterday. His parts are top notch quality and look real nice. Sled rides so smooth over the bumps. Thanks Dan....Be seeing you again I hope.

alt · Feb 11, 2012

800poodragon said:
Rode Dans XP yesterday. His parts are top notch quality and look real nice. Sled rides so smooth over the bumps. Thanks Dan....Be seeing you again I hope.

Thanks Mark. When i took yours for a spin, i diddnt think you went anywhere with mine until i popped back over the hill. A huge thanks to you and the other guys. What a great group. Would love to do it again. Not sure if you even noticed how the back over rides the front suspension. Diddnt have the Raptors on the front. Left my set at the shop, and diddnt realize until i got there, that i had the old HPG stockers on. Thanks.
Dan

1Mike900 · Feb 11, 2012

For the cross shafts if I am hearing you right these are the aluminum 7075 cross braces? I would make them out of either 3/4 x 156w and swage them full lg. to .650 od and swage the ends to .625 for the threads (.312) bolts. Otherwise .625 X .156 will work if swaged to .600 on the ends! I made a set for my sled which saved a whole whopping 1 cross brace in weight! Like he said the front shock shaft would be the most benefit by having 2 1" long 3/8 bolts replace the thru bolt. All must be out of 7075 or 2024 alloy min.

Mike

mountainhorse · Feb 12, 2012

Dan... I've been pondering this since we talked on the phone about a Ti version for the PRO RMK back in 2010. Probably too much... Me and RacerJB both.

Referencing the dwgs below...

The cross braces for the rails... #12 can be easily and inexpensively made from swaged tubluar aluminum tube from Rod End supply.. 1ea for the 155's and 2ea for the 163's and Assaults.

#4 can remain stock aluminum for the cross shaft.

#23, lower shock mount... make the inner from Titanium rather than the stock steel... keep the outer spacers... Hard coat ano all for shedding snow and wear.

#11, the rear axle can be sourced from ICE Age for next season.. Gundrilled 7075 aluminum with integral nuts for tightening. Ti bolt for adjustment.

The rails themselves could be made a bit lighter from Ice Age Mfg. and you could run the lighter weight Ski Doo Hyfax.... Hard coat anodize YOUR custom rails.

The long bolts, #13 can be Ti to cut weight.

Of course the lower scissor, #19, in Ti...But make the lower tube large enough to have bushings and a TYPE III hard coat ano shaft (#15).. you will not need to grease that or deal with the weight of the grease.

Carbon fiber or Fabcraft rear wheels will be the lightest choice there.. and not build up ice.

For the Rear arm... second dwg...

#8 of course from Titanium complete... Run a bit larger top tube and again run a bushing in there with a hard ano gun drilled 1.125" dia 7075 cross shaft (#7)

#6, the wheels... run the fabcraft or Carbon fiber idlers to drop weight.

#6, Titanium using the stock inserts, #10, OR aluminum inserts with Hard ano Type II.

for the last dwg...

#10 and #7 Titanium.

The cross shafts.. gun drilled, hard ano shafts... The top one, a bit larger diameter than stock and run this in a bushing with no grease.

Titanium springs front and rear... Stock shocks for the weight-weenies... and you will have a 28 lb skid. Pretty cool!

You can Option this out in different ways so that people can keep certain parts or choose the lighter weight options.

.

alt · Feb 12, 2012

Take a peek at my XP skid. Closely resembles the Polaris, and for a few different reasons. I agree on most of what you have layed out there, will change a few things, just because of my experience in working with these parts. I am guessing the diam. of the main tube cross shafts to be .750 (stock)? For the guys running turbos, areas need to be beefed up a bit, but again, check out my XP skid. It will at least visually be very similar. All bushing material will be Turcite. Awsome stuff. You can actually run dry, and get outstanding component life. Not that i recomend it, but its just that impressive. Either way, this will be exactly what the Pro needs to finish the job. Not to side track, but me not being as up to speed on this sled as your self, was wondering about oil delete? Any reason why a guy couldnt? Thanks!
Dan

mountainhorse · Feb 12, 2012

Can't do a Premix on the motor... there would be no lube for the bottom end if you did...Injectors fire up into the transfer ports...not into the case/bearings.

alt · Feb 12, 2012

mountainhorse said:
Can't do a Premix on the motor... there would be no lube for the bottom end if you did...Injectors fire up into the transfer ports...not into the case/bearings.

Ah, got it. Thats too bad, it would be another big loss in the areas were looking for, and gains in others. Thanks mountainhorse! Really excited about this thing. Its going to be a super fun project, and the way im going to try to do everything, guys can add pieces as they can afford them. Obviously will be cheeper in a kit, but i totally get the guys that cant jump in with both feet, but still want to get the bulk of it.

Angermangement890 · Feb 13, 2012

Does the bonded front torque arm in the skid on the 13 pro make your proposed skid easier to manufacture? Just like the front arms, you could make replacement tubes to cut the weight and reduce the amount of material/welding that was needed.

fredw · Feb 13, 2012

dan, do you have all the parts and raptors to do another xp skid... let me know

http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=497288

alt · Feb 13, 2012

fredw said:
dan, do you have all the parts and raptors to do another xp skid... let me know

Everything minus a front track shock.

racerjb · Feb 13, 2012

Do you have any pics of your XP skid assembled but not in the sled that you could post up?

fredw · Feb 14, 2012

here are a few pictures of the xp skid, look very similar for the pro i bet http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=497288

Titanium full rear suspension for the Pro

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