ctec 2 does it direct inject oil to the crank?

Octanee · Mar 26, 2019

Hey guys, So contemplating an alpha and I watch the video and google about the engine, so it mixes some oil in the fuel which can be great, and the slotted piston to spray a tad to the wrist pin, OK great. But what I CANNOT find googling is whether its still directly oiling the crank bearings like every other engine or if it does solely rely on that mix'ed fuel being injected to completely lube the engine?

Next to that, how would one think it will hold up long term on a low boost turbo setup? Thanks :face-icon-small-ton

Suzzy-Q · Mar 27, 2019

I believe ctec engines inject oil into the air stream like the old sleds used too as well as some mixed into the fuel mix like you said. So the cranks will get oil in a conventional way with particles falling out of the air steam

bcsnowdog · Mar 27, 2019

18/19 engine oil is injected into reed block and also mixed with fuel in fuel rail. 2020 engine oil will be delivered through the case with high velocity,sprays directly at bottom end,eliminate oil spitback through intake.Heard no oil mixed with gas in fuel rail on 2020.

Octanee · Mar 27, 2019

Good info guys and the info I couldn't find!, I'd question the longevity of the engine then? As they went to more direct sprayers as it worked better than just spraying into the air stream... Am considering to pick up a 19 alpha as the price is great, If I buy this new of a sled I want to keep it for like 5 or 6 years, but I plan in a year or 2 to turbo it as well so I'm looking for something that'll last for years to come, I understand the whole turbo dilema as well but If it's low. Boost its like sea level hp at higher elevation anyways., thoughts on that?

kiliki · Mar 27, 2019

18/19 also has 1 line going to the center (water pump) section on the motor. this oil will also migrate out each side passing through the two middle bearings.

Dam Dave · Mar 27, 2019

They are not doing this for engine longevity or your benefit, EPA is mandating less and less emissions so the engine must be leaner and leaner to pass and not get fined, it only has to last until off warranty , they really have no choice except make it leaner with less oil usage or loss out exhaust

Octanee · Mar 27, 2019

kiliki said:
18/19 also has 1 line going to the center (water pump) section on the motor. this oil will also migrate out each side passing through the two middle bearings.

Gotcha,

Dam Dave said:
They are not doing this for engine longevity or your benefit, EPA is mandating less and less emissions so the engine must be leaner and leaner to pass and not get fined, it only has to last until off warranty , they really have no choice except make it leaner with less oil usage or loss out exhaust

And yes there is that battle going on, that's where I thought with the other sleds or engines them directly injecting oil into where the bearings were was the way to go vs sort of "needlessly" spraying it into the air which to me emissions wise would be worse and find more oil out the exhaust, but that must be wrong as they've done it!.

That said I have been calling around and many people seem to be having no issues with the engines otherwise? seems well built from what I hear, called 2 dealers, both said out of about 80-100 sleds sold with the engine seen maybe 1 or 2 come back. One local guy said he put 4k km on his 18 and over 2500k km on his now alpha one with no issues, same belt for the 2500 km. I tried googling engine issues and don't find much for threads? google the ski doo 850 engine issues and there are threads about it indeed, But maybe my google search is biasing somehow lol :juggle:

madmax · Mar 27, 2019

I think the reliability of the cat motors speak for them selves. I don’t care how they are oiled, they just plain last. I’ve owned over a dozen cat 800’s since the proclimb came out and never lost a motor. Out of the 8 Polaris 800’s I e owned over the last 5 years have lost 4 out of 8 motors.

d1100t · Mar 28, 2019

Oil ratio

Some guys are adding oil to the fuel tank.
I'm one of those guys.
My 2018 fuel to oil ratio is about 65:1 so I add oil to my fuel tank to get the ratio closer to 40:1

bjd68 · Mar 28, 2019

d1100t said:
Some guys are adding oil to the fuel tank.
I'm one of those guys.
My 2018 fuel to oil ratio is about 65:1 so I add oil to my fuel tank to get the ratio closer to 40:1

Same here Im at 65:1 so I just add 1 ounce oil per gallon of fuel might go a little more though!

Octanee · Mar 28, 2019

Good info guys, and yes the cat engines seem to last so that's why I'm seriously considering to jump to cat now.

I see about ecm tunes, anybody get one from say precision efi to increase the oil injected at all times? I'd consider a tune for that alone.

Adding oil to fuel can help but if you add too much you could start leaning out the sled a bit.

Big10inch · Mar 28, 2019

madmax said:
I think the reliability of the cat motors speak for them selves. I don’t care how they are oiled, they just plain last. I’ve owned over a dozen cat 800’s since the proclimb came out and never lost a motor. Out of the 8 Polaris 800’s I e owned over the last 5 years have lost 4 out of 8 motors.

Yes and No... The Proclimb used the Suzuki motor and the 18+ Ascender uses a different motor based mostly on the zuk but with some updates. The big difference is that the zuk was a rich running, oil guzzling beast, I love mine. Those are the ones that earned the rep for durability and longevity. It is way too soon to tell how the new emissions motors are going to last. Polaris never did last, but it seems like the Doo 850 is starting to see some early failures and Cat seems to have a few as well but they are a year behind Doo on a new motor.

I would be careful stating that they just last. Yes, the old Suzuki did last. Is the ctech that good? Too soon to tell IMO. They haven't been out long enough for failures to really manifest themselves. Now the 2020 motor is different again... I gave up beta testing for sled manufacturers when I left Polaris for a Suzuki powered Cat.

Vern · Mar 28, 2019

From my understanding cat designed the zuke engine, and they've had the ctec 6 on snow since '14 with minimal issues that I've heard of, so it's not like cat is flying blind on the ctec 8. Though I agree it's to soon to say the ctec will have the rep of the zuke I'd say it's pretty fair to say cat has the top honors for two stroke reliability.

Griff · Mar 28, 2019

bcsnowdog said:
18/19 engine oil is injected into reed block and also mixed with fuel in fuel rail. 2020 engine oil will be delivered through the case with high velocity,sprays directly at bottom end,eliminate oil spitback through intake.Heard no oil mixed with gas in fuel rail on 2020.

Do we know if the 2020 motor will continue adding oil at the reed block?

What is everyone's opinion of the changes in oiling for 2020, an improvement or not?

Possibly 2020 configuration will offer the best of both worlds - some oil directed to the bottom end and allow some to be added to the gas to counter the EPA compliance measures implemented by Cat.

Thought?

turboless terry · Mar 28, 2019

Vern said:
From my understanding cat designed the zuke engine, and they've had the ctec 6 on snow since '14 with minimal issues that I've heard of, so it's not like cat is flying blind on the ctec 8. Though I agree it's to soon to say the ctec will have the rep of the zuke I'd say it's pretty fair to say cat has the top honors for two stroke reliability.

I wouldn't get too googly eyed over the 6. I had buddies on the hillclimb circuit that had lots of trouble. The c tech is nowhere near the zuke. Maybe it will get there with the upgrades for 2020.

Vern · Mar 28, 2019

turboless terry said:
I wouldn't get too googly eyed over the 6. I had buddies on the hillclimb circuit that had lots of trouble. The c tech is nowhere near the zuke. Maybe it will get there with the upgrades for 2020.

I don't know anyone who personally has a 6, I've just never heard much about failures, and typically when something has an issue that all you hear about.

Octanee · Mar 28, 2019

I had called justin @ silber yesterday to ask his opinion, And he figured it was a good engine, Has a few demo/rental sleds out there that from 0 miles on had the turbo on it and they are still going strong.

I also asked him if he knew much on the 2020, He said the fuel injection system changed and to his knowledge was purely only to meet emissions. Now there isn't a lot of info out there on it so who knows, time will tell hey.

Im Super close to picking up a demo'd alpha on saturday, :face-icon-small-hap

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ctec 2 does it direct inject oil to the crank?

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