Benefits for sleds in forest

donbrown · Mar 21, 2015

I SEE ALL THESE STICKYS BUT NOT ONE FOR THE BENEFITS SLEDS DO FOR THE FOREST !

With all the negative propaganda I think there should be a dedicated STICKY declaring the benefits of snowmobiles

Especially after reading how some declare adverse effects with no facts

So let me go ahead and provide a few benefits

donbrown · Mar 21, 2015

Snowmobiles provide remote access to an area covered in snow.

Can locate and extract a cross country skiers or hikers in the snow covered back country.

SNOWMOBILES can go farther and faster than any other land vehicle in the snow WITH the least impact to the environment ... even humans

Snowmobiles can travel in adverse wind and stormy condition better than an helicopter or aircraft.

Snowmobiles carry supplies in and waste out of an area, cabin , yurt , fire watch.

Snowmobiles can bring in people and supplies and tools to SNOTEL stations

donbrown · Mar 21, 2015

Snowmobiles pack the snow so it takes longer to melt allowing the water starved cities to have more water reserve later in the year.

donbrown · Mar 21, 2015

Snowmobiles funds (in California Nevada and elsewhere ) pay for conservation jobs and programs such as

planting of trees and vegetation in fire ravaged areas and make the area BETTER

pays for road and trail access to weather stations and fire lookouts

pays for access to the forest for non paying users such as , law enforcement , search and rescue , federal officials , cross country skiers, snowshoeing , hiking , back wood snowboarding , access to private property located in snow covered areas.

grooms trails so hikers can walk their dogs.

pays for bridges and tunnels for people and animals to cross over or under roads , hazardous areas and waterways.

donbrown · Mar 21, 2015

Snomobile communities provides free training.

CPR

Avalanche

Water conservation

search and rescue

towing safety

road safety

operator safety for many vehicles , snowmobiles , snowcats

volcano buster · Mar 21, 2015

Clubs in our area, and likely most areas, spend significant volunteer time doing trail maintenance which is beneficial to other users in different seasons, and a cost savings to the tax payer who would likely pay for it through the agencies.

donbrown · Mar 21, 2015

volcano buster said:
Clubs in our area, and likely most areas, spend significant volunteer time doing trail maintenance which is beneficial to other users in different seasons, and a cost savings to the tax payer who would likely pay for it through the agencies.

Sledders remove hazardous trees and brush ( especially when fire hazards are minimal ... snow covered terrain)

Shovel snow off structures so to minimize winter damage

Report damage / dangers in areas only accessible by snowmobile

Provide events / access to the forest for handicapped and people without sleds to see a winter wonderland!

Bcorn · Mar 21, 2015

Don't forget pack trails for dog sledders!

polaris dude · Mar 22, 2015

I did a speech in my speech class about how closures for animals was absurd, and cited a specific case in Idaho where they were trying to declare a huge area as habitat for 300 caribou or something like that. I found studies that showed that the same caribou used the snowmobile tracks at night to navigate terrain easier as opposed to trying to walk through 5 feet of snow. Not to mention those snowmobilers who found that moose or in alaska that was caught in an avvy and dug it out.

donbrown · Mar 22, 2015

Bcorn said:
Don't forget pack trails for dog sledders!

People who walk their "house" dogs without roughing it in the snow so they go potty on the groomed trails.

Jaynelson · Mar 25, 2015

They have really been pumping the adverse affects of sleds on caribou around here lately. I'm always amazed how the ski hills, and cat/heli-ski operations are immune to similar criticisms, even though they would seem to have similar effects. I guess the people who write the articles don't want to ruin their weekend fun.

The largest benefit I see, is that you don't have to cut down and permanently alter a substantial piece of the forest to ride snowmobiles; as opposed to building a ski hill.

By the time you clear-cut a bunch of runs for a ski hill....build roads, large parking lots, run power and services way up into the mountains....operate and fuel groomers and lifts....then have hundreds of vehicles drive up there to use it. Is that really more environmentally friendly than going snowmobiling?

That would take some serious math to figure out which is better or worse per user, but establishing and operating a ski hill is definitely not "low impact" IMO. Same goes for the diesel-powered 5-star lodges for heli/cat skiing that have popped up all over the west. A heli burns more fuel in a couple hours than a sled does in season. I am happy to take criticism from some die-hard dude who skins up from the highway all day to have one run down, but that guy is pretty rare.

Yes, sleds burn fuel...but at least they typical operate on existing infrastructure (forest roads, trails, etc), and/or their tracks disappear with the addition/melting snow.

donbrown · Oct 25, 2018

Take it to the top … Is that even allowed?

Teth-Air · Oct 25, 2018

Places where sled traffic is highest there is rarely an avalanche. Packing snow repeatedly seems to reduce the hazard to all.

zecow224 · Oct 25, 2018

Jaynelson said:
They have really been pumping the adverse affects of sleds on caribou around here lately. I'm always amazed how the ski hills, and cat/heli-ski operations are immune to similar criticisms, even though they would seem to have similar effects. I guess the people who write the articles don't want to ruin their weekend fun.

The largest benefit I see, is that you don't have to cut down and permanently alter a substantial piece of the forest to ride snowmobiles; as opposed to building a ski hill.

By the time you clear-cut a bunch of runs for a ski hill....build roads, large parking lots, run power and services way up into the mountains....operate and fuel groomers and lifts....then have hundreds of vehicles drive up there to use it. Is that really more environmentally friendly than going snowmobiling?

That would take some serious math to figure out which is better or worse per user, but establishing and operating a ski hill is definitely not "low impact" IMO. Same goes for the diesel-powered 5-star lodges for heli/cat skiing that have popped up all over the west. A heli burns more fuel in a couple hours than a sled does in season. I am happy to take criticism from some die-hard dude who skins up from the highway all day to have one run down, but that guy is pretty rare.

Yes, sleds burn fuel...but at least they typical operate on existing infrastructure (forest roads, trails, etc), and/or their tracks disappear with the addition/melting snow.

Not to mention a heli is burning Jetfuel more than likely which is substantially worse for the environment.

GreenState · Oct 25, 2018

zecow224 said:
Not to mention a heli is burning Jetfuel more than likely which is substantially worse for the environment.

Helis run Jet-A, which is basically premium diesel.

"Jet-A is a high-purity kerosene based fuel manufactured under a specific ASTM standard (D1655), with specific physical properties, and is used in jet turbine engines. Fuel not meeting the Jet-A specification is generally recycled in the production chain for other purposes (for example it may be used in blending kerosene for heating, or blended into highway diesel). Jet-A is suited for turbine engines, but can also be burned in other compression-ignition piston engines like diesel can (there are a wide variety of aerodiesel engines available from several manufacturers).
Other grades of Kerosene are used for motor fuels, cooking fuel ("camp stove fuel" is typically kerosene) heating, lighting, etc. depending on their refining and purity."

donbrown · Oct 25, 2018

GreenState said:
Helis run Jet-A, which is basically premium diesel.

"Jet-A is a high-purity kerosene based fuel manufactured under a specific ASTM standard (D1655), with specific physical properties, and is used in jet turbine engines. Fuel not meeting the Jet-A specification is generally recycled in the production chain for other purposes (for example it may be used in blending kerosene for heating, or blended into highway diesel). Jet-A is suited for turbine engines, but can also be burned in other compression-ignition piston engines like diesel can (there are a wide variety of aerodiesel engines available from several manufacturers).
Other grades of Kerosene are used for motor fuels, cooking fuel ("camp stove fuel" is typically kerosene) heating, lighting, etc. depending on their refining and purity."

Very detailed … Do planes and helicopters run DEF to reduce emissions??? Or would it be futile since the exhaust is already in the atmosphere?

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Benefits for sleds in forest

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