Tial External wastegates
- Thread starter Uncle Bob
- Start date
K
borrowed from OVS
OVS determined after testing that the Tail turbine housing and external wastegate spools faster and makes more power than the Garrett internal wastegate turbine housing . Comparing the two designs you would have to run 3lbs higher boost on the Garrett internal wastegate design to make the same power as the Tial turbine housing with the external wastegate. OVS industry first exhaust link that lets the external wastegate do it's job without interrupting the exhaust flow. This is done by taking the exhaust equally from the perimeter between the pipe and turbine housing so the exhaust stream has the least amount of interruption into the Tial turbine housing as possible. If you are looking for the best upgrade for your Garrett turbo kit this is the one.
OVS determined after testing that the Tail turbine housing and external wastegate spools faster and makes more power than the Garrett internal wastegate turbine housing . Comparing the two designs you would have to run 3lbs higher boost on the Garrett internal wastegate design to make the same power as the Tial turbine housing with the external wastegate. OVS industry first exhaust link that lets the external wastegate do it's job without interrupting the exhaust flow. This is done by taking the exhaust equally from the perimeter between the pipe and turbine housing so the exhaust stream has the least amount of interruption into the Tial turbine housing as possible. If you are looking for the best upgrade for your Garrett turbo kit this is the one.
its a big cost, and lots more plumbing etc. just the wastegate, flanges and clamps is almost another $400+ now add in the housing, etc.
they do work better for sure seen it firsthand the swap from internal to TiAal housing and external. but for most people its not a necassary thing, yes it works better but not worth the cost for many, nor the effort to develop for 10 kits a year?
they do work better for sure seen it firsthand the swap from internal to TiAal housing and external. but for most people its not a necassary thing, yes it works better but not worth the cost for many, nor the effort to develop for 10 kits a year?
Yes, it is all cost related. If it cost the same it would be on all turbo kits. I have found that as stated above, you can run lower boost and achieve the same horsepower with the TIal setup. It seems to be quicker reacting as well. At lower boost numbers and smaller turbos (i.e. 2860) it is now that much of an advantage. As you increase the boost or the compressor size it seems to become more and more noticeable.
G
Tial turbine housings are tighter and do accelerate the wheel quicker with less volume of gases.
The also flow less than a similar ar garret housing. be aware of that when you make a purchase.
apples to apples, any external gated turbine will respond quicker than an internal gate because of the better flowpath to the wheel.
I have proven both in the field and on the dyno that external gates on the pipes center section or tail cone is the best set up period for boost control, piston heat and response. NOTHING beats that set up.. Nothing. Gating off the stinger is by far the worst method for a 2 stroke as we have lower heat than a 4 stroke and rely almost solely on gas pressure and velocity to do the work on response..
The also flow less than a similar ar garret housing. be aware of that when you make a purchase.
apples to apples, any external gated turbine will respond quicker than an internal gate because of the better flowpath to the wheel.
I have proven both in the field and on the dyno that external gates on the pipes center section or tail cone is the best set up period for boost control, piston heat and response. NOTHING beats that set up.. Nothing. Gating off the stinger is by far the worst method for a 2 stroke as we have lower heat than a 4 stroke and rely almost solely on gas pressure and velocity to do the work on response..
--Every Tial turbo kit that comes to mind is currently gated off the stinger -- it must work at least ok
--If tapping into in the tailcone or center section is better for Tial external gate, then is should also be better for a internal gate also, right?
--If tapping into in the tailcone or center section is better for Tial external gate, then is should also be better for a internal gate also, right?
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G
Drop the name tial . THEY only know 4 strokes they are just learning 2 strokes..
ANY external gate as I said is better than an internal gate for a 2 stroke.
Why and how would you plumb your INTERNAL gate to the pipes centersection knifedge ?
I did not say it doesnt work, using a bb gun to shoot an elks eye out works, but is it the right thing to do ? Its not the best way and it does put more heat back on the piston .
I am sponsored by Garret and Tial, I love them both . They will both soon announce more design changes too.
ANY external gate as I said is better than an internal gate for a 2 stroke.
Why and how would you plumb your INTERNAL gate to the pipes centersection knifedge ?
I did not say it doesnt work, using a bb gun to shoot an elks eye out works, but is it the right thing to do ? Its not the best way and it does put more heat back on the piston .
I am sponsored by Garret and Tial, I love them both . They will both soon announce more design changes too.
R
Would it be possible to mount the waistegate in the tial housing right after the inlet, just cope the mount for the waistegate to fit and drill holes or 1 big hole for the inlet.
U
gus can you clarify this for me, does this mean that although it spolls faster and is more responsive it will be more restricted on the top end compared to similar sized internal garrett
thanks guys, great discussion, keep it going
U
what your saying makes perfect sence but is it more dangerous to the engine to releive on stinger then a internal gate is or about the same
U
sooo your saying to sit tight
U
Come on in ken, grab a chair. obviously one of the kits i have been looking at, since you have both styles that you offer what can you add
R
Yes is it a complete cutout or lots of holes to minimize turbulance.
E
This is mainly done for fitment issues where you don't have room for the external gate. When you tap into the turbine housing with the gate your altering the A/R of the housing itself. When it actually opens the turbine itself sees its velocity escaping elsewhere and disrupts flow to the wheel. Externally gated allows you to get away from the turbulence normally occurred by an internal gate. But it will work.
External gates are much larger than a standard internal. It has the ability to remove more pressure/heat than an internally gated setup.
Its better with the external. There is always a good, better, best... The stinger location for the external is common because its the easiest way. By diverting off before the stinger would be the "best" but its more complicated for fab and fitment.
TiAL external waste gates
All PUSH TURBO first kits were TiAL exhaust housings and waste gates. I started in 2007-2008.
All PUSH TURBO first kits were TiAL exhaust housings and waste gates. I started in 2007-2008.
Wast gate location
In all my research and development I prefer to place the waste gate on the housing or just before it. This keeps the dynamics of the pipe and stinger intact and pressurized for the best on-off throttle response. By placing the W.G. in the expansion chamber you change the pressure wave back to the engine which in turn will take some heat off the piston, adding run ability performance if you are detonating. I believe it is better to have the full potential of the exspansion chamber and a comprehensive ignition system (THE ECU by Vi-PEC). With control of the ECU I can adjust the power valve to RPM and BOOST, which is a better solution than taking timing or the pressure wave.
In all my research and development I prefer to place the waste gate on the housing or just before it. This keeps the dynamics of the pipe and stinger intact and pressurized for the best on-off throttle response. By placing the W.G. in the expansion chamber you change the pressure wave back to the engine which in turn will take some heat off the piston, adding run ability performance if you are detonating. I believe it is better to have the full potential of the exspansion chamber and a comprehensive ignition system (THE ECU by Vi-PEC). With control of the ECU I can adjust the power valve to RPM and BOOST, which is a better solution than taking timing or the pressure wave.
R
That must be a new housing for this year very interesting.
who makes the adapter that ovs uses between the turbine inlet and the stinger gasket??
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